[MD] Awareness and consciousness in the MOQ

[Ant McWatt]

Arlo Bensinger stated April 9th 2012:

> Nice to see you contributing again, Ant, in my opinion it 
> raises the Quality here considerably. 

Cheers Arlo,

I always enjoy seeing you here too!
 
> [Ant]
> Though Pirsig doesn’t like to interchange the words (because the former 
> term has a lot of distortive, traditional connotations from established 
> religions), “God” can be used as a synonym for “Dynamic Quality”.
> 
> [Arlo]
> I think Pirsig uses the term "Godhead" in ZMM explicitly in one passage. 
> And his substitution exercise regarding the Tao Te Ching enforces this 
> idea. My question is, apart from the 'traditional connotations of 
> established religions', what would be the value of using 'God' instead 
> of 'Dynamic Quality'?

Ant McWatt comments:

Within the MOQ itself, I'd say none.  However to explain the system to someone unfamilar with it or to engage in the type of multi-cultural analysis that F.S.C. Northrop undertook then it would possibly have a use - if carefully qualified.  As I said before, it's a loaded term with considerable cultural baggage.

----CUT----
> 
> [Ant]
> That's a difficult issue as the MOQ is just going to be incompatible on 
> some level with other philosophies and belief systems.
> 
> [Arlo]
> This is a problem I have with the literary technique of saying "the 
> MOQ". I think this has come to, fundamentally, mean different things to 
> different people. I see some using it as analogous to "Pirsig says" (as 
> Pirsig implies in describing this technique) and others using it as 
> something independent of what Pirsig wrote, of which Pirsig was simply 
> trying to describe, and may be right or wrong about.

Ant McWatt comments:

When Pirsig says "the MOQ states" he is using it instead of saying "I state" because it's less egotistical.  That was one of the reasons - if not the primary reason - he introduced the character Phaedrus in ZMM; it was to reduce the number of "I"s in the book.  As Pirsig says somewhere, how the ego is viewed by Zen is diametrically opposed to how a celebrity (such as Pirsig himself) is "built up" by the mass media. 

> 
> Think about it this way, if I ask "Can Pirsig be wrong about the MOQ?", 
> how would you interpret that? Do you see it as "Can Pirsig be wrong 
> about Pirsig?" or "Can Pirsig be wrong about how he's described the MOQ, 
> which exists as something for him to describe?"
> 
> Are Pirsig's writings "the MOQ" or are they simply a description (one of 
> possibly many) of "the MOQ"? 

Ant McWatt comments:

Sometimes it useful to draw a distinction between the Metaphysics of Quality (MOQ) and metaphysics of Quality (moQ).  Of course, SOM is an example of the latter but should not be confused with the former!!!

> This is not to argue that fields of inquiry 
> do not, or should not, or can not, evolve. They most certainly do 
> (whether we want them to or not). But, as the theory evolves, do we 
> argue that competing views are about 'which MOQ is the one-true MOQ', or 
> that 'my ideas are better than your ideas'?

Ant McWatt comments:

Well, as far as I'm concerned the MOQ is the philosophy as laid out by Robert Pirsig in LILA together with the further modifications and examples found in the 1991 NPR radio interview, the 1993 AHP Conference transcripts (Part 3 to follow soon at robertpirsig.org !), the 1995 SODV paper, his comments in Lila's Child together with his published post-1990 correspondence whether that's with Doug Renselle, Paul Turner, MOQ Discuss members or myself!  I'd therefore regard the one true MOQ as all these published writings of Pirsig's from 1991 to the moment that you read this sentence.  

As such, when you or I say "the MOQ states"  I'd regard that as referring to our own individual interpretations of the MOQ.  Some interpretations such as DMB's usually "ring true" with me as far as what I think the MOQ is; while , of course, most intrepretations are usually off target to a smaller or larger extent. I'll be polite here and not name names!!! 

Best wishes,

Ant


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