[MD] A problem with the MOQ.

[118]

On 4/20/12, craigerb at comcast.net <craigerb at comcast.net> wrote:
> [Ant]
>> theories of empirical science are concerned with corresponding experiences
>> that are...not
>> particular
>
> [Pirsig]
>> “In the MOQ repeated experience of the pattern gives it its “thingness.”
>
> [Tuukka]
>> It is very unclear, how theories of empirical science should have no
>> corresponding
>> *repeated* experience, as the whole branch of science is based on such
>> experiences.
>
> A distinction is needed:
> We can only talk about a particular raven because we are able to (in
> Strawson pere's
> terminology) "reidentify" it as the SAME raven.  For instance, that raven is
> flying when
> the SAME pattern (in Pirsig's terminology) occupies successively contiguous
> places in space.
> What makes 2 distinct patterns both ravens (birds of the same kind)?
> Because they are both the same KIND of pattern.
> Science is concerned with KINDs of patterns.  The data is the reidentified
> patterns;
> the theory is the generalization about those kinds of patterns.
> "If you can't generalize from the data, you can't do anything else with it
> either" (Pirsig)

Mark (as an empirical scientist):
Data has no pattern until it is subjected to a theory.  It is the
theory which provides the pattern.  One cannot generalize from data.
One can only generalize from theory, the data is completely neutral
and could care less about the theory.  The generalization of theory to
other data puts new data within the rules of the theory.  If the data
can be conformed to such rules, it supports the theory.

This use of data and theory can be applied to DQ and SQ as follows:
DQ is the data, SQ is the theory.  Depending on what theory we have,
DQ can appear very differently as SQ.  It is this difference in theory
which provides the fuel to the different religions and philosophies
and camps within a field of science.  However, this difference has no
effect on the DQ which gave rise to the SQ.   DQ (data) is not
different for each interpretation, it is only the interpretation which
is different.  The same set of data can give rise (and does) to a
great many theories.  So if Pirsig is right, "we can't do anything
with it".  That sort of thing is called "data manipulation" and is
frowned on in science.  Wish the same were true in politics.

End of lesson in science.

Mark
>
> Craig
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>