[MD] pragmatic

[MarshaV]

Hi Ron,

On Aug 29, 2012, at 11:39 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:

> 
> Marsha chants her mantra]
> Once one accepts the MoQ's fundamental principal that the world is nothing but Value, then 'expanded rationality' occurs when an individual transforms the natural tendency to reify self and world into the natural tendency to hold all static patterns of value to be hypothetical (supposed but not neccesarily real or true.)  By using 'hypothetical' I think there is less of a tendency toward intellectual arrogance.  Understanding static (patterned) value as hypothetical acknowledges the incompleteness of what we know and makes room for additional inquiry with new possibilities; it promotes an attitude of fearless curiosity: gumption.  It moves one away from thinking of entities as existing inherently and independent of consciousness.
> 
> 
> Ron:
> Well, whatever floats your boat. But I still don't see why you gotta constantly shove it down all our throats just because you can't come to terms with the word and insist on interpreting it as intellectually arrogant.

It became really boring for me to post it too, but not as boring as the questions about 'truth'.


> Ron:
> Rhetorically, saying that ALL static patterns are hypothetical (supposed but not necessarily real or true.) is nothing short of provokation. It turns truth (pragmatic good) into a supposition when Pirsig clearly states that it is the most empirically real as any truth can be, the immediate NOW of experience.
> 
> Exactly how can the immediate NOW experience be a supposition when it is the most real and true experience there is? 

I don't think of the NOW experience as being a 'supposition'.  I don't think of the NOW experience being 'real' or 'true' either.  It is only afterwards such an experience is assigned an analogous descriptor. 


> Ron:
> You understand the immediate NOW, it is intelligible and not chaotic, it is infinitly definable therefore it must be in many ways, static, no? Now, Hypothetical used as "conditional" has some wiggle room for you, but you have to really consider how you understand the term Hypothetical and what it means in the context you are trying to assert it. ESPECIALLY when you constantly and repeatedly post it like planting a flag that signifies what you stand for and mean or else you end up with some egg on your face, not like an omlette on your forehead has ever slowed you down or anything.

I had nothing to say about 'truth' with its many meanings, and its cultural association with certainty.  I tried to explain that to David; he can be very tenacious.  Static patterns of value, though, are really interesting, so I responded with what I had.  Thanks for seeing the wiggle room.


Marsha