[MD] Relativism, a definition

[Carl Thames]

Marsha, quick question: What do you think of the MoQ as a distillation of 
Hinduism?  I know Buddhist philosophy started there, how about the MoQ?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "MarshaV" <valkyr at att.net>
To: "MoQ" <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 6:39 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] Relativism, a definition


>
> Mark,
>
> Since my interest is comparing and contrasting the MoQ with Buddhism, I 
> think it most appropriate to quote from Steve Hagen's book when it comes 
> with such a STRONG  recommendation from RMP.  The only other book that I 
> can think of with such a recommendation might be F. S. C. Northrop's book. 
> Besides, to the limits of my experience, Steve Hagen's book is very 
> insightful.  But, of course, I read many other sources too.
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
> On Jan 3, 2012, at 3:12 AM, 118 <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Marsha,
>> Yes I have read the book, it is on my shelf.  I believe we are beyond the 
>> simplistic explanations which Hagen delivers.  ...
>>
>> Snip...
>>
>> But if we use Hagen's presentation, it would seem to me that discussing 
>> MoQ is not just "day to day" thoughts we can easily discuss.  MoQ is more 
>> about ultimate truth.  I am not saying that the concepts of MoQ are 
>> ultimate, just like what Hagen writes is not ultimate truth.  What I am 
>> saying is that contemplation through MoQ can bring one to becoming that 
>> Ultimate or direct perception.  The end result of MoQ is exactly the same 
>> as the end result of Buddhism.
>>
>> Therefore I find it somewhat trivial to try to relate to MoQ in relative 
>> terms.  Such terms are fine for planning a fishing trip, but not for 
>> discussing the nature of reality.  I think Hagen would agree with me on 
>> that.
>>
>> Snip
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Sent laboriously from an iPhone,
>> Mark
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2012, at 8:56 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Mark,
>>>
>>> Both relativism and pragmatism are intellectual static patterns of 
>>> value.  Just as pragmatism has had its cultural/philosophical 
>>> ups-ans-downs, ins-and-outs and was pretty much dead-in-the-water, it is 
>>> presently having a revival, so too may the fearful be silenced when it 
>>> comes to relativism.
>>>
>>>
>>> "While I am thinking about it there is a very good book on Buddhism 
>>> recently out called 'Buddhism, Plain and Simple', by Steve Hagen and 
>>> published by Tuttle Publishing. I recommend you get it because it shows 
>>> the similarities, between the MOQ and Zen Buddhism more clearly than any 
>>> other I have seen."
>>>             (Pirsig to McWatt, May 6th 1998.)
>>>
>>> From Steve Hagen's book:
>>>
>>> "Nagarjuna, the brilliant Buddhist philosopher of second-century India, 
>>> wrote,
>>>
>>>    Those who do not understand the distinction between
>>>     [the] two truths do not understand the profound truth
>>>    embodied in the Buddha's message.
>>>
>>> "These two truths are relative and Absolute Truth.
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------
>>>
>>> (Hagen, Steve, ‘Buddhism: Plain and Simple’, p.142)
>
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