[MD] NYC

[118]

Hi Marsha,
It appears we are talking past each other.  Second hand is the same as one step removed, that is why it is called second hand.  I have no interest in saying the same thing.  Let's move on OK.

Sent laboriously from an iPhone,
Mark

On Jan 3, 2012, at 9:23 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:

> 
> 
> Mark,
> 
> I never mentioned being "one step removed from reality" in any case; you are projecting again.  There is experience(unpatterned/patterned).  I wrote:
> 
> As you well understand, I was stating that the direct perceptions from moseying down Broadway, rather than the second-hand conceptualizations gleaned from reading a book, are a more direct experience of New York City.
> 
> And:
> 
> "This direct perception of pure Dynamic Quality without any intellectual mediation is the same as the goal of Buddhism known as ‘awakening’ or ‘enlightenment’. (Pirsig, 1994)"
>      (The MoQ Textbook)
> 
> Please note:  "without any intellectual mediation".  And I have no questions for you.  
> 
> 
> Marsha
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 3, 2012, at 6:51 PM, 118 <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Marsha,
>> 
>> It is all experience, nothing second-hand about it.  We create
>> experience; experience is not sensed.  It cannot be second-hand if we
>> are responsible for its generation.  What would it be second-hand to?
>> Just because you involve more senses, does not make your NY any more
>> direct of an experience.  It is still a creation of our minds.  Both
>> examples of NY are second-hand constructions, if you want to use that
>> terminology (even though it is somewhat nonsensical).  I do not see
>> how you can be one step removed from reality in one case, and not in
>> the other.
>> 
>> Remember, we do not hear sounds, we create sounds with our ears and
>> brains.  We do not see color, we create color internally.  We do not
>> have experiences, we create them. We can create an experience of NY by
>> reading about it.  By the way, if you want to read a great book about
>> NY, try Winter's Tale by Mark Helprin.  It will leave you with the
>> smell, the sound, the sights, the touch, and the taste, all from one
>> little fictional book.  You will have been more in NY than if you were
>> there in person.  I recommend it!
>> 
>> I do not know how else to explain it any better.  Ask me a specific
>> question and I will try to use your concepts to have you understand
>> what I am trying to say.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Mark
>> 
>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 6:15 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mark,
>>> 
>>> 'Reading about' is second-hand constructed experience of NYC, rather than the seeing, hearing, smelling, touching & tasting aspects of NYC directly.  But maybe you would like to explain "direct experience" as you are using the term.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Marsha
>>> 
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