[MD] humpty dumpty

[MarshaV]

Hi David,

I agree with you about starting with undefined Dynamic Quality, but tend to be a little more hesitant concerning the use of betterness.  Maybe something like 'pre-definition' would be better terminology for DQ than 'pre-intellectual'.  I think the 'defining process and definitions' are better placed with consciousness.  All patterns from all levels have been isolated, have been named and assigned a definition of sorts identifying it.  And in LILA's CHILD, RMP states "Consciousness can be described is a process of defining Dynamic Quality. But once the definitions emerge, they are static patterns and no longer apply to Dynamic Quality.".  So I contend that there is interdependence between consciousness and all static quality and it is interaction where they are perceived and/or conceptualized.  Static patterns can be identified with a level when it is determined what type of value they prefer.

Thanks for responding.  


Marsha 




On Jul 26, 2012, at 7:07 AM, David Harding <davidjharding at gmail.com> wrote:

> To be precise - in the MOQ we start with Dynamic Quality which is undefined betterness and work from there.. 
> 
> On 26/07/2012, at 8:32 PM, MarshaV wrote:
> 
>> 
>> So, it is okay to start with a social static pattern of value, or a biological static pattern of value, or inorganic static pattern of value, but definitely not an intellectual static pattern of value?  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 26, 2012, at 5:58 AM, David Harding wrote:
>> 
>>> Yes, a belief can be seen as an intellectual pattern of value. So it's good to start with value first - and then define it intellectually.  That way we can 'take' an idea based on how good it is and not worry about which is the one 'true' idea.
>>> 
>>> On 26/07/2012, at 7:37 PM, MarshaV wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Greetings David,
>>>> 
>>>> Theoretically I am not going to disagree with you, but isn't 'belief' merely a static pattern of value: value? 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Marsha
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jul 26, 2012, at 4:02 AM, David Harding <davidjharding at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Marsha,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think it's better in philosophy, rather than to start from beliefs, but to start from experience. Specifically our experience of value.   If we are willing to re-evaluate our 'beliefs' based on experience of value, then the beliefs or ideas which we 'take' would be those best suited to that particular situation.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -David.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 26/07/2012, at 5:03 PM, MarshaV wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> When we tackle a philosophical problem, we have no choice but to start from our present beliefs; but in the course of "thinking on these things" we may reject some of our beliefs on the grounds that they conflict with others that we are not prepared to reject.  To give an example, we might start off with the belief that we have free will, but abandon it on grounds that it conflicts with certain of our scientific beliefs.  Or we might abandon the latter on the grounds that they conflict with our belief in free will.  Which direction we take depends on what?   
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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