[MD] T.U.R.T.L.E.W.A.X.

[Ian Glendinning]

Yes, the engrained "normal" perspective must be the majority view by
definition - the mystical insight must be the exception, once the
paradigm shift has happened it ceases to be a mystical insight ....
but new mystical insights (leaps) are always possible.

BTW I think in "leap of faith", the only faith is in the leap being
taken; in the taking of a leap in a mystical insightful way, rather
than to or for any (authoritative) objective.

Ian

On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 11:24 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> Ian,
>
> Great article!
>
> Also, ever consider that if a '180-degree-mystical' direct insight was experienced by 95% of all human beings then this "180-degree-mystical" would have been just the preliminaries to an evolutionary paradigm shift in human understanding?
>
> I can make no sense in "faith in something" or how it relates to my hesitation to surrender to authority.
>
> Marsha
>
>
> On Jun 8, 2012, at 5:16 AM, Ian Glendinning <ian.glendinning at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Leap of faith, gumption, common sense ... yes.
>> One thing's for sure the foundations of physical science is NOT
>> another scientific theory / hypothesis / principle.
>> See Carlo Rovelli http://www.psybertron.org/?p=4448
>>
>> (PS Marsha, don't confuse leap of faith, with faith in something.)
>>
>> Ian
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 8:17 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> p.s.  As a leap of faith, faith in authority doesn't ultimately appeal to me; that would be even a well respected authority.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 8, 2012, at 3:06 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mr. Booth,
>>>>
>>>> I imagine, unless we're only interested in job security and maintaining the status quo, as a foundation we want direct insight (experience).  The point was that while a product of experience, abstractions & generalizations (concepts) may stray too far from that experience to be meaningful, even intellectually meaningful.  The MoQ is empirical, yes?
>>>>
>>>> Marsha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 7, 2012, at 2:34 PM, Frank Booth <frankbooth66 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It's funny to hear Ramanujan named. Mathematics has axioms as the "bottom turtle" and R's english mentors being involved at the time in attempting to lay down a solid self-contained foundation ( T.U.R.T.L.E.W.A.X. ). Good intuition.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Value, not concepts: Yes indeed. I would go so far as to say Value and Leap o' Faith are ( is? ) the very same tortuga.
>>>>>
>>>>> Leap of faith is really another way of saying Gumption.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From Gumption, the higher symmetries, turtle upon turtle.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
>>>>> To: "moq_discuss at moqtalk.org" <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 9:12 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [MD] T.U.R.T.L.E.W.A.X.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Direct perceptions and experience (Value), not concepts.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 6, 2012, at 3:00 PM, Frank Booth <frankbooth66 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What is the name of the bottom turtle?
>>>>>>
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