[MD] T.U.R.T.L.E.W.A.X.

[MarshaV]

Ian,

Great article!  

Also, ever consider that if a '180-degree-mystical' direct insight was experienced by 95% of all human beings then this "180-degree-mystical" would have been just the preliminaries to an evolutionary paradigm shift in human understanding?

I can make no sense in "faith in something" or how it relates to my hesitation to surrender to authority.

Marsha


On Jun 8, 2012, at 5:16 AM, Ian Glendinning <ian.glendinning at gmail.com> wrote:

> Leap of faith, gumption, common sense ... yes.
> One thing's for sure the foundations of physical science is NOT
> another scientific theory / hypothesis / principle.
> See Carlo Rovelli http://www.psybertron.org/?p=4448
> 
> (PS Marsha, don't confuse leap of faith, with faith in something.)
> 
> Ian
> 
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 8:17 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> p.s.  As a leap of faith, faith in authority doesn't ultimately appeal to me; that would be even a well respected authority.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 8, 2012, at 3:06 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Mr. Booth,
>>> 
>>> I imagine, unless we're only interested in job security and maintaining the status quo, as a foundation we want direct insight (experience).  The point was that while a product of experience, abstractions & generalizations (concepts) may stray too far from that experience to be meaningful, even intellectually meaningful.  The MoQ is empirical, yes?
>>> 
>>> Marsha
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jun 7, 2012, at 2:34 PM, Frank Booth <frankbooth66 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> It's funny to hear Ramanujan named. Mathematics has axioms as the "bottom turtle" and R's english mentors being involved at the time in attempting to lay down a solid self-contained foundation ( T.U.R.T.L.E.W.A.X. ). Good intuition.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Value, not concepts: Yes indeed. I would go so far as to say Value and Leap o' Faith are ( is? ) the very same tortuga.
>>>> 
>>>> Leap of faith is really another way of saying Gumption.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From Gumption, the higher symmetries, turtle upon turtle.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
>>>> To: "moq_discuss at moqtalk.org" <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 9:12 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [MD] T.U.R.T.L.E.W.A.X.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Direct perceptions and experience (Value), not concepts.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jun 6, 2012, at 3:00 PM, Frank Booth <frankbooth66 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> What is the name of the bottom turtle?
>>>>> 
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