[MD] aggregates of grasping

[MarshaV]

Mark,

Right,,, because it was a red-herring, asshole statement meant to get me to chase my tail.  No dice, Baby, start explaining!!!  


Marsha




On Mar 7, 2012, at 11:45 AM, 118 <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:

> Marsha,
> I see no reason to do this, figure it out on your own.
> Mark
> 
> On 3/7/12, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Mark,
>> 
>> 
>> Explain how you think I am using relationships in an objective fashion?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mar 7, 2012, at 11:33 AM, 118 wrote:
>> 
>>> Marsha,
>>> No this is incorrect, you are using relationships in an objective fashion.
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> On 3/7/12, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Mark,
>>>> 
>>>> Static patterns of value can be understood as recurrent patterns of
>>>> interactions that arise simultaneously.  Such patterns are not objects in
>>>> any sense, but specific, recurring relationships.  This notion aligns
>>>> well
>>>> with the Buddha's The Principle of  Conditionality: If this is, that
>>>> comes
>>>> to be; from the arising of this, that arises; if this is not, that does
>>>> not
>>>> come to be; from the stopping of this, that is stopped.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Marsha
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mar 7, 2012, at 6:52 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Further, Mark, it seems you cannot understand the difference between
>>>>> object and process?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 6, 2012, at 7:36 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It seems you cannot understand the difference between an objective,
>>>>>> independent existence and a relative, interdependent existence?  Well,
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> shall not be rushed into presenting a Tractatus, but at the very least
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> relative, interdependent existence will not require a primary source or
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> soul.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2012, at 11:55 AM, 118 <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Marsha,
>>>>>>> You seem to be using your patterns as objects.  Am I wrong here?  I do
>>>>>>> not see how you are making the patterns something different.  Even
>>>>>>> objects can change, so that does not mean anything different.  It
>>>>>>> would seem that your are simply performing a word change from
>>>>>>> "objects" to "patterns".  How are they different?  We see a pattern on
>>>>>>> a rug, because it repeats itself.  That is what a pattern is.  What is
>>>>>>> it about your patterns that provides such repetition.  How is it that
>>>>>>> you undergo pattern recognition?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Just seeking clarification for my own understanding.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 3/6/12, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2012, at 3:35 AM, "Ham Priday" <hampday1 at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I find it interesting that our beloved Marsha, who has consistently
>>>>>>>>> denied
>>>>>>>>> her selfness, now denies her ability to form opinions, as well.
>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>> reviewing Mark's analysis of her March 4 dissertation on feelings
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> their ownership, Marsha responded:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I don't know enough to form an opinion.  It is extremely
>>>>>>>>>> interesting,
>>>>>>>>>> though,
>>>>>>>>>> and I hope to learn more.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> One can only wonder what all those quotes posted from the Vedanta
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> Buddhist scholars are intended to express if not her opinion.
>>>>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>> certainly formulated her own opinion of what a SOM pattern is, since
>>>>>>>>> "ever-changing, conditionally co-dependent and impermanent, static
>>>>>>>>> patterns of inorganic, biological, social and intellectual value"
>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>> become the mantra that identifies her.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hello Ham,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You must have been reading my thoughts, for I have surely been
>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>> about you, and hoping you would find a way to do what you do so well.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I would like to comment on the term "SOM pattern".  For the
>>>>>>>> expression
>>>>>>>> seems
>>>>>>>> both true and false.  The mind does seem to have evolved to reify ALL
>>>>>>>> useful
>>>>>>>> experience into objects of conception & perception; it is a very
>>>>>>>> insidious
>>>>>>>> tendency.  I do believe my definition of static patterns helps to
>>>>>>>> move
>>>>>>>> one's
>>>>>>>> ideas about "objects" from discrete, bounded, objective entities to
>>>>>>>> ones of
>>>>>>>> pragmatically formed, recursive, interdependent "patterns of value
>>>>>>>> (processes)".
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> And, yes, I have found much useful detail presented by Vedanta and
>>>>>>>> Buddhist
>>>>>>>> scholars.  It often surprises me how clearly they present very
>>>>>>>> difficult and
>>>>>>>> strange (to the Western way of thinking) ideas. But always I believe
>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>> should continually check and verify.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
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>> ___
>> 
>> 
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