[MD] Why are things called patterns?

[MarshaV]

Horse,
  
On Mar 18, 2012, at 9:36 AM, Horse wrote:

> Hi Marsha
> 
> The position I'm referring to is the position you have been supporting for some time re: Dynamic/Static quality and which you support by the use of the quotes you posted and your comment at the end.
> The quotes I posted were not in support of my position but in opposition to your quotes, showing, I believe, that Pirsigs position is opposed to your own.
> My position is that of Pirsigs for the most part.
> 
> Horse
> 
> On 18/03/2012 13:26, MarshaV wrote:
>> 
>> Horse,
>> 
>> Which position is that?  And how are you not selecting quotes and using them out of context to support your position, whatever positions you might be holding?
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha
>> 
>> 
>> On Mar 18, 2012, at 8:57 AM, Horse wrote:
>> 
>>> "The word “produced” implies that Dynamic quality is a part of a cause and effect system
>>> of the kind generated by scientific thinking. But Dynamic Quality cannot be part of any
>>> cause and effect system since all cause and effect systems are static patterns. All we can
>>> say is that these static patterns emerged and that they are better than physical
>>> nothingness."
>>> (Lila's Child)

'But DQ cannot be a part of cause and effect…'  I agree.  



>>> 
>>> "Dynamic Quality is defined constantly by everyone. Consciousness can be described is a
>>> process of defining Dynamic Quality. But once the definitions emerge, they are static
>>> patterns and no longer apply to Dynamic Quality. So one can say correctly that Dynamic
>>> Quality is both infinitely definable and undefinable because definition never exhausts it.
>>> It is the point at which static patterns emerge where there were no static patterns before.
>>> It is not a two-way street, and therefore the term “interaction” seems inappropriate."
>>> (Lila's Child)

I haven't said a single word about a two-way street.  I thought the first part of the quote does point to static patterns being DQ defined. 


>>> "Dynamic Quality is value and thus is very easily distinguished. When one creates a word
>>> for it and tries to distinguish this word from other words in a set of static intellectual
>>> patterns, confusion results. But the confusion is caused by the static patterns that seek to
>>> subordinate Dynamic Quality to themselves.
>>> (Lila's Child)

I agree.  


Marsha 



>>> 
>>> ...and so on and so forth.
>>> 
>>> It looks to me  like you're selecting quotes and using them out of context in order to support your position whilst leaving out other quotes that either fail to support your position or that undermine your position.
>>> 
>>> It seems fairly obvious from the above  - and from other quotes which can be found throughout various books - that neither Pirsig nor the MoQ (and quite likely the Buddhist tradition) support your position.
>>> 
>>> Horse
>>> 
>>> On 18/03/2012 09:16, MarshaV wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> "Dynamic Quality is defined constantly by everyone. Consciousness can be described is a process of defining Dynamic Quality. But once the definitions emerge, they are static patterns and no longer apply to Dynamic Quality. So one can say correctly that Dynamic Quality is both infinitely definable and undefinable because definition never exhausts it."
>>>>      (Lila's Child)
>>>> 
>>>> "Moreover, Nagarjuna (1966, p.251) shares Pirsig’s perception that the indeterminate (or Dynamic) is the fundamental nature of the conditioned (or static)..."
>>>>      (MoQ Textbook)
>>>> 
>>>> "Form is emptiness, emptiness is form.  Form is not other than emptiness; emptiness is not other than form."
>>>>       (Heart Sutra)
>>>> 
>>>> Marsha:
>>>> Static quality is not other than Dynamic Quality; Dynamic Quality is not other than static quality.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid."
>>> — Frank Zappa
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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> 
> -- 
> 
> "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid."
> — Frank Zappa
> 
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