[MD] The value of static patterns.

[118]

Hi David,

I take your questions in the friendliest of ways.  I have no ego in
this, and only present what I am considering at the time of the post.
I am open to alternative ideas.

On 3/21/12, David Harding <davidjharding at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Mark,
>
>> This is just my humble opinion, of course.  Not to be construed as the
>> position taken by MoQ or the participants in this forum.  It is open
>> for discussion so that I may learn.
>>
>
> Okay then, in that spirit I have a couple of general questions - not
> necessarily expecting that you or you alone has the answer but perhaps one
> that the MOQ can illuminate...
>
>> While it is important not to succumb to sq, it is equally important to
>> Glorify in it (IMO).  If one perceives the division between DQ and sq,
>> and takes that to heart, I do not believe one will succumb to sq.  Sq
>> is a “conscious separation” from reality and is somewhat hallucinatory
>> and bewitching; it should be balanced with awareness of DQ (whatever
>> that is).  This is the teachings of many Eastern, Middle Eastern,
>> South American, American Indian, Aborigine, (and Western)
>> philosophies.  This is why it is important to interact "consciously"
>> with DQ through meditative processes, and a direct embracing of
>> mystical teachings.  These can be “moved towards” through sq, but lie
>> far beyond that.  Once sq shows us the way, sq can be abandoned in
>> those practices.
>
> If DQ is the goal then why is there sq? Why don't we just abandon sq at the
> get go and follow DQ the whole time?

We simply cannot follow DQ alone and survive.  I do not think
completely following DQ at the expense of sq is the goal; In my
opinion, MoQ states that following DQ is a form of freedom.  However
freedom must always be in the presence of less freedom to give it
meaning.  I like the analogy of a ladder where the rungs are sq, and
the movement upwards while climbing is DQ.  One cannot climb the
ladder without rungs.
>
>> In MoQ we are taught to distinguish between sq and DQ in order to
>> broaden our awareness of this existence.  The “wordy path” of Western
>> thought may have moved away into "pure sq realms", and forgotten age
>> old teachings.  I believe that one purpose of MoQ is to allow a return
>> to reality as it was originally conceived by Quality.
>
> Do you think that the MOQ offers anything for someone with an Eastern
> perspective? Or indeed, a Mystic for instance, who views DQ and sq as one in
> the same? Or, is the MOQ simply another teaching that we could get equally
> as much from Zen or any other Eastern tradition?

I think that interpretations of MoQ could fall well within the range
of such "Eastern perspective".  Since the world is becoming more
harmonious due to global internet and so forth, this mixing should
result in a combination of the two.  Hopefully the best from each
world view will be adopted rather than the worst.  Often things sink
to the lowest common denominator though.

I do not think the mystical view is where DQ and sq are "one and the
same".  Within the mystical view there is also DQ and sq, as presented
in many of the mystical texts.  The dynamic interplay between both
becomes much more apparent in a mystical view, imo.  The mystical is
more closely related to "feelings" than actual intellect.  These
feeling are encapsulated by archetypes (such as snakes and such).  The
nature of these archetypes is well understood as symbolic, much more
than words on a page in the West are seen as symbolic.  We have more
attachment to words than a mystic would.  If we let go of this
attachment, we allow DQ to have a greater impact on our lives.  One
can read a book about Argentina, or one can actually go visit.  During
a visit, the words on the page are inconsequential, and direct
experience is more important.  Sq does not show what lies behind the
sq, it can only point there.  DQ provides the show.

Any teaching should be written in a language that we understand, and
taught by someone we can relate to.  This "language" must conform to
the reasoning that we have been educated during the first 12 years of
our lives (reasoning outside of that is considered "insane"), or the
education can take a long time.  I believe that MoQ can deliver the
same result as the studying of Zen.  I believe that Pirsig stated that
where he "got to" by his Quality approach, was similar to where Zen
students "get to" with their approach.

It is important to have a goal in mind with all of these studies, imo.
 Once cannot simply hope to get someplace by shear luck.  If one has
the appropriate goal with MoQ, I see no reason why it cannot get one
there.  Even reading Kant's "What is Enlightenment" can bring about
enlightenment if the goal for doing so is there.

Hope my answers are not too spontaneous, but they come from the heart.
 I welcome any thoughts of yours on these subjects.

Mark

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