[MD] Contradiction and incoherence

[118]

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 11:44 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
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> On Mar 30, 2012, at 5:56 PM, 118 <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:
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>> On 3/29/12, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
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>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 1:39 AM, 118 <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:
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>>>>>> Mark:
>>>>>> This is why I asked if you had a different way for presenting Quality,
>>>>>> which starts with the premise that DQ and sq cannot be distinguished.
>>>>>> It is an honest question.
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>>>>> Marsha:
>>>>> I think the mirage analogy works well.
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>>>> Mark:
>>>> Me too.
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>>> Marsha:
>>> Great!
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>> Mark:
>> Perfect!  Although I can see why "cold is not other than hot" also
>> lends itself to some enlightenment, so I understand your original
>> point of view.  First, however, we must say that cold is different
>> from hot for it to work.
>>
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> Marsha:
> Bob, an experienced desert traveler, sees the mirage as a mirage and assures Bill, a neophyte, that there is no danger from the puddle on the road.  Isn't the idea to understand that these static patterns should not bind, or blind, us whether intellectual level patterns or biological patterns.  Then one merely needs to recognize patterns, and to determine, to the best of one's ability, what it values and whether it is useful or not in the present case.  I think it better to make such determinations when one is free from fear and dependence.

Mark:

Bob: "Bill what do you see?"
Bill: "I see water"
Bob: "That is just a mirage"
Bill: "Yes, but it is a mirage of water"
Bob: "You are right, it does suggest water, it makes me thirsty"

Mirages are always of something real, even though the mirages
themselves are not the real thing.  That thing is simply misplaced.
Therefore, if we claim that what we experience is a mirage, what is it
then a mirage of?  The intellectual patterns must be a mirage of
something.  What is that something?  If one is free from the mirage,
then one is missing the whole thing.  Why would one ignore the whole
thing?

Bill: "How can it make you thirsty if it is just a mirage"
Bob: "It reminds me of water"
Bill: "So you are remembering something real?"
Bob: "Of course, what do you think a mirage is?"
Bill: "Now I am getting thirsty too, show me the water."
Bob: "Which one?"

If we forget what the mirage is of, then we cannot see a mirage.  But
we do remember.  There is nothing to be free of except that which IS.
If it IS, then we can be free of it.  It makes no difference how
useful it is, for it is always pointing to something.  Nobody has ever
seen a mirage of an emerald fire breathing elephant, that is a
hallucination.

Perhaps Marsha, what you are saying is that static patterns are
hallucinations. That is even beyond solipsism.  I think what you are
saying, however, is to not be fooled by misdirection.  Let us go look
for that thing that is doing the misdirecting.
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