[MD] kill all intellectual patterns

[MarshaV]

dmb,

On Nov 21, 2012, at 1:31 AM, david buchanan <dmbuchanan at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Marsha:
> And as RMP states in LILA "Quality is a direct experience independent of and prior to intellectual abstractions."

> dmb:
> That is the distinction between DQ and sq. DQ is the primary empirical reality (direct experience) and intellectual abstractions (idea, concepts, definitions) are static quality. Primary means first, prior to, and concepts are secondary, are derived from the primary.

> Pirsig quotes James on this point: "There must always be a discrepancy between concepts [sq] and reality [DQ], because the former are static and discontinuous while the latter is dynamic and flowing."

And?

> dmb:
> That's the meaning of "truth" in the MOQ. "Truth is a static intellectual pattern within a larger entity called Quality."

Sure, 'truth' is _a_ (one among many) intellectual static pattern of value.  A few definitions can be found in the dictionary.   And? 


> dmb:
> "Now, to take that which has caused us to create the world [DQ], and include it within the world we have created [sq], is clearly impossible. That is why Quality cannot be defined. If we do define it we are defining something [sq] less than Quality itself [DQ]." (ZAMM, chapter 20) This is another way of saying that concepts are always secondary and derived, as opposed to being the primary empirical reality. The distinction between DQ and sq is not just made up and it's not fancy. It's the difference between experience and thought, between reality and words.

And?


> There is nothing logically contradictory about having an experience while thinking at the same time.

Huh?  You can be eating an orange and thinking about something else, perhaps Denver.  It is a common event.


> The idea here is to get them both working TOGETHER. And doing that means putting them in their proper relation, knowing which is which.

They aren't really things to be working together.


> "Quality is a direct experience independent of and prior to intellectual abstractions."
> "Independent of and prior to" means DQ comes first and is distinctly different from intellectual abstractions.

And?  

RMP WROTE:

>>>>> While sustaining biological and social patterns 
>>>>> Kill all intellectual patterns. 
>>>>> Kill them completely 
>>>>> And then follow Dynamic Quality 
>>>>> And morality will be served. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ... 
>>>>> 
>>>>> "When Phaedrus first went to India he'd wondered why, if this passage of enlightenment into pure Dynamic Quality was such a universal reality, did it only occur in certain parts of the world and not others? At the time he'd thought this was proof that the whole thing was just Oriental religious baloney, the equivalent of a magic land called 'heaven' that Westerners go to if they are good and get a ticket from the priests. Now he saw that enlightenment is distributed in all parts of the world just as the color yellow is distributed in all parts of the world, but some cultures accept it and others screen out recognition of it."
>>>>> 
>>>>>     (LILA, Chapter 32)


I didn't make it up.  I agree this RMP quote and I explained why.  And my explanation didn't look anything like the literalist twist that you spin it through.  


Marsha