[MD] social engagement

[MarshaV]

Hi Carl,

Loy also had some very interesting things to say (about 40 minutes into lecture) about the three roots of suffering: greed, aggression and delusion as institutionalized in the West through consumerism, militarism and the media.  I thought he was right on.  But then I thought the entire lecture inspired much food for thought and in a manner that was compatible with the MoQ.   Thanks for taking the time to watch.  
 
 
Marsha



On Sep 23, 2012, at 1:39 PM, Carl Thames wrote:

> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "MarshaV" <valkyr at att.net>
> To: "MoQ" <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 4:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [MD] social engagement
> 
> 
>> 
>> Greetings Mark and all,
>> 
>> I would like to say a few more words about this lecture because I want everyone to watch it for some important MoQ reasons.  In this talk, David Loy traces the intellectual concern for social justice, and the understanding that humans can restructure society to make it better, back to the Greeks, and makes it a fundamental of the West intellectual point-of-view.  He suggests that before that society was understood to be "the nature of things".  Loy seems to point to a clear division between the social level and the intellectual level which does not include "the East."  I think the talk offers import considerations when defining the intellectual level and differentiating it from the social level, and also offers some strongly worded flaws in its development.
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1e7Zysfkj0
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha
> 
> I watched the first half of this which includes the synopsis of what you wrote above.  Thank you for posting this.  I see the fundamental problem being that the west sees the world through the scientific lenses you describe, and tries to make sense of "the nature of things."  Put another way, that reduces everything to a thing.  (The nature of THINGS)  That's a basic difference.  By definition, every THING is seperate.  Buddha tried to eliminate that distinction by pointing out that we're all connected, and that it's all one THING.  That realization does happen at the intuitive level, not the social or intellectual level.
> 
>> ------------- 
>> 
>> Hi Mark,
>> 
>> 
>> I think the title is self explanatory.  Rather than offer a synopsis, David Loy presented a bit of a quote by Gary Snyder written sixty years ago:
>> 
>> "The mercy of the West has been social revolution; the mercy of the East has been individual insight into the basic self/void. We need both. They are both contained in the traditional three aspects of the Dharma path: wisdom (prajna), meditation (dhyana), and morality (sila). Wisdom is intuitive knowledge of the mind of love and clarity that lies beneath one’s ego-driven anxieties and aggressions. Meditation is going into the mind to see this for yourself — over and over again, until it becomes the mind you live in. Morality is bringing it back out in the way you live, through personal example and responsible action, ultimately toward the true community of “all beings.”"
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha
> 
> I left this in because I think it should be repeated.  Then, it should be repeated again, until we learn it.
> 
> Carl 
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