[MD] social engagement

[118]

Now Marsha, my dear,

I have no intention of wiping out everyone else's.  Multiple realities can
all exist side by side.  All I present are my views of reality through the
paradigm of Quality.

If everything is analogy, then the word analogy has no meaning, since
everything being analogy is just an analogy.  Like a snake eating its own
tail it is a hopeless paradox which I do not think gets anywhere.  Perhaps
that is the purpose, not to get anywhere.  Like dancing on a dance floor,
there is nowhere to go.  Pretty existentialist, I might add.  That all is
analogy is at the core of Existentialism.  Meaning has no meaning, as it
were.


On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 10:41 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:

>
>
> Sure Mark, as you wipe out everyone else's.   It's all analogy, every last
> bit of it, even yours.  Don't you just love the dance?
>
> I take going into the mind to mean introspection (meditation), where one
> actually watches thoughts come and go.  One gets to see firsthand the
> nature of the little static tyrants.   If you're needing a quote to justify
> the practice from a MoQ perspective:
>
> Mark:
I wouldn't call them tyrants unless one is sufferring. Buddhism assumes
that people are sufferring and want to escape.  I guess Buddhism works for
those people.  There are plenty of ways to escape though.  If you are
sufferring, try Buddhism first, then maybe an aspirin.

Meditation is setting your thoughts free.  They do not belong to you, they
cannot affect you.  They are just thoughts that your brain creates.  Just
ignore them, there are more important things.


> "The purpose of mystic meditation is not to remove oneself from experience
> but to bring one's self closer to it by eliminating stale, confusing,
> static, intellectual attachments of the past. "
>           (LILA, Chapter 9)
>
> And no, and I cannot turn my awareness towards the watcher so I will not
> speculate in that direction.
>
> Mark:
I suppose Pirsig knows a lot about mystic meditation, so he can be an
expert on that subject.  I believe every word he utters on the subject of
mystic meditation; he is a world renouned mystic, rated in the top ten of
mystics of all times.  He writes often of his mystical experiences in
several journals, and is invited to speak often on the subject of mystic
meditation.  I would dare say that he has a black belt in mystic meditation.

Now that I have read the quote, I can't help but believe that mystic
meditation is exactly as he puts it.  I would never have guessed that the
Truth could be so simple.  Thank you so much for that enlightenment, and
let me know something else that Pirsig has written, to guide me along.
I'll find a quote in Lila about something else, that you must believe,
because Pirsig wrote it.  You can thank me then!

ha, ha, ha, another rogue wave!  What power I have!  I am God!
Mark

>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 24, 2012, at 12:49 PM, 118 wrote:
>
> > Hi Marsha,
> > Funny, I consider myself to be a castle builder.  I have presented many
> ways to be aware of Quality, and I'm not done yet!
> >
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > On Sep 24, 2012, at 12:59 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Hi Mark,
> >>
> >> You are like a rogue wave that swishes upon beach to wash away all the
> castles in the sand: not his, not that.  And a minute later the wave, too,
> is gone.
> >>
> >>
> >> Bye,
> >>
> >> Marsha
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> p.s.  Perhaps if the Buddha had had a modern pen and notebook he would
> have kept a journal.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sep 24, 2012, at 1:57 AM, 118 <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Marsha,
> >>> Thanks for the link, I will give it a listen while I am driving to
> work.  I
> >>> do have a comment at the end of your post which may be of interest to
> you.
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 11:00 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Greetings Mark and all,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I would like to say a few more words about this lecture because I
> want
> >>>> everyone to watch it for some important MoQ reasons.  In this talk,
> David
> >>>> Loy traces the intellectual concern for social justice, and the
> >>>> understanding that humans can restructure society to make it better,
> back
> >>>> to the Greeks, and makes it a fundamental of the West intellectual
> >>>> point-of-view.  He suggests that before that society was understood
> to be
> >>>> "the nature of things".  Loy seems to point to a clear division
> between the
> >>>> social level and the intellectual level which does not include "the
> East."
> >>>> I think the talk offers import considerations when defining the
> >>>> intellectual level and differentiating it from the social level, and
> also
> >>>> offers some strongly worded flaws in its development.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1e7Zysfkj0
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Mark,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I think the title is self explanatory.  Rather than offer a
> synopsis,
> >>>> David Loy presented a bit of a quote by Gary Snyder written sixty
> years ago:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "The mercy of the West has been social revolution; the mercy of the
> >>>> East has been individual insight into the basic self/void. We need
> both.
> >>>> They are both contained in the traditional three aspects of the Dharma
> >>>> path: wisdom (prajna), meditation (dhyana), and morality (sila).
> Wisdom is
> >>>> intuitive knowledge of the mind of love and clarity that lies beneath
> one’s
> >>>> ego-driven anxieties and aggressions. Meditation is going into the
> mind to
> >>>> see this for yourself — over and over again, until it becomes the
> mind you
> >>>> live in. Morality is bringing it back out in the way you live, through
> >>>> personal example and responsible action, ultimately toward the true
> >>>> community of “all beings.”"
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Marsha
> >>>>
> >>>> Since in this forum we are discussing a metaphysics devoted to
> Quality, I
> >>> thought I would try to draw some relationship between your quote and
> MOQ.
> >>>
> >>> If we take a view through the thought pattern which encompasses the
> Dharma
> >>> path as presented above, I believe there are some connections.  The
> way I
> >>> have been trying to explain Truth is similar to "wisdom".  This would
> be
> >>> the intuitive knowledge that presents a place from which we can start
> our
> >>> patterning.  Meditation is akin to SQ, in that we create patterns
> through
> >>> thought.  That is, we "see" something.
> >>>
> >>> "Going into the mind" does not make sense to me from a Quality
> perspective,
> >>> since this creates a separation between "one who is going in", and "the
> >>> mind".  I am not sure how one separates the two.
> >>>
> >>> As we know, Morality is not simply a human endeavor, but something
> that is
> >>> inherent in everything.  As humans, we express the "human variety" of
> >>> Morality.  At its core, this expression is no different to a photon's.
>  By
> >>> "by bringing it back out" we have the permutations of DQ, as it
> happens.
> >>>
> >>> As we know, Pirsig did not try to encapsulate the great body of work
> >>> devoted to Zen.  But he does present parallels between his Quality,
> and the
> >>> Zen tradition.  More so in ZAMM than in Lila, the latter being one
> which
> >>> tries to explain Quality using standard Western modes of inquiry.  In
> the
> >>> East there is little class movement, except that which is Western in
> >>> tradition.  At the begining of the video (all I have watched so far,
> the
> >>> speaker seems positive about the mixing of both traditions.  He would
> claim
> >>> that a better mixing would happen if the East came West, rather than
> the
> >>> West going East.  Presumably due to cultural values.  The implication
> is
> >>> that the West is ready for change much more than the East.
> >>>
> >>> In the West, we tend to divorce ourselves from the natural flow of
> >>> existence by creating huge amounts of Static Quality.  As I have
> presented
> >>> previously, the written word is highly static and bewitching.  The
> spoken
> >>> word is entirely different.  Our society seems to be going faster into
> the
> >>> dominance of the written word.  What is being lost are the traditional
> >>> face-to-face engagements which used to dominate a society.  Because of
> >>> this, society is becoming devoid of personality, texting is replacing
> >>> talking.  Many people feel more comfortable texting or discussing
> things
> >>> via computer than talking face-to-face.
> >>>
> >>> Here we have two computers talking to each other.  There is no affect
> to
> >>> the written word except what the reader puts into it.  There is no
> >>> intonation which makes up 75% of a conversation.  This leads to
> >>> misunderstanding as we see so often in this forum.  The written word
> has
> >>> brought us into an increasingly static state, where we present quotes
> >>> without affect.  Depending on how the author said the quote, makes all
> the
> >>> difference.  This is why watching a speaker is infinitely more
> educational
> >>> than reading a writer.  I wonder what Buddhism would bring to this
> dilemma.
> >>> As  you know Buddha refused to write anything down, and for good reason
> >>> (of course Socrates and Jesus did the same thing).
> >>>
> >>> I am curious how you see the video relating to MOQ.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Mark
> >>>
>
>
>
> ___
>
>
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