[MD] The Tao of Quality - Verse 1

[Krimel]

> [Krimel]
> We experience all sorts of regularities without any apprehension
whatsoever.
> The beating heart, the random of hiss of neurons firing in our 
> auditory systems, the direction Lincoln is facing on a penny, the name 
> on the tag of last our server, the number of pickets on the last fence 
> we passed. In fact the number of things we regularly experience 
> without apprehension is vast bordering on the infinite.

Dan:
If you are using the term 'experience' in the sense of a subject
experiencing an object, yes. In the MOQ, experience comes first. All static
quality patterns emerge from experience.

[Krimel]
There is no subject of object in a passing fence or a name tag or a pocket
full of change, the point was they reside outside of awareness but in
experience. Where is the subject or object in a heartbeat or a breathe of a
ringing in the ear?

> [Krimel]
> Biological patterns are experienced irrationally. They are unnamed.

Dan:
Well, I suppose you could say that, thought you seem to be saying biological
patterns are primary when you say we experience them.
Again, in the MOQ, experience comes first. Static quality patterns like
rationality and irrationality emerge from experience. They are not
pre-existing notions.

[Krimel]
In the morning I am rested; I am hungry 
Then I'm busy until noon.
I eat and then get busy
5 o'clock can't come too soon.
Time for shopping
Time for cooking
Time for running here and there.
Time for John and Stephen
And when their over I'll be sleep'n
Then I'll get up and do it again
Amen
I'm gonna get it up again

Life is cycles of systole and diastole
Of centripetal and centrifugal lines of force. 
We spin through cycles of light and darkness
Of warmth and cold.
I think that is Sane Dave's point. 
We are habitual cyclic creatures in our being
We experience these patterns without a word.
And we usually do.

But if we like we can talk about all this
Break it down, if you will.
We can measures our cycles
An count our days in coffee spoons.
We can separate fact from fiction.
We can construct argument
Or create common ground.
But we don't have to.

Dan:
Well, I don't know as I said we are confined to the moment. I said we wake
to the moment. Intellect affords us the advantage of building up a sense of
not only the past but the future. Intellect emerges from experience,
however.

[Krimel]
I thought "in the moment" we were in some pre-intellectual state. Is waking
a breaking of this pre-intellectual state? How does Intellect wake to the
moment. Once it awakes up how does it return to a sleep? Are there
oscillations or a sort of smooth churning of background to foreground and
back again? 

Dan:
When we are thinking of the present our thinking leads us astray. The moment
arises pure and unsullied. Our thinking encapsulates it into that which we
know. These distinctions allow us to navigate the world, to survive. These
discriminations arise from experience, be they rational or irrational.

[Krimel]
I don't think we think in the present. When we think we leave the present
and go to whatever we are thinking about. We can do this because the present
doesn't need us. Our bodies work in the world they are thrown into. When
they need us they have plenty of ways of letting us know. In the mean time
we can think about whatever we like because our thinking isn't important.
Our rational selves have so much time on their hands, that they spend much
of it speaking to themselves; as if we other to ourselves. But the fact is
most of the internal chatter is so unimportant is doesn't even get in the
away of our bodies doing what they do.

Dan:
Well, perhaps Heidegger says so but Pirsig doesn't, nor does James. I would
be interested in a quote, if you have one handy, just so we can compare. I
am pretty sure the MOQ would say there is always a lag between our
experiences of the world and our conceptions of the world.

[Krimel]
Consider that a rough draft of Heidegger I ought to have more over the next
few weeks. But the quick and dirty nitty gritty of what I am getting at is
in Gladwell's "Blink". Ariely's "Predictably Irrational", or Kahnamen's
"Thinking Fast and Slow." Or anything by Damasio.
There is this lag. But James says there often is no clear distinction
between conception and perception as concepts do enter into immediate
perception and perceptions are distilled into concepts. This is a dynamic
feedback system after all. If helps, Elizabeth Grosz says it well in her
book, "Chaos, Territory, Art: Deleuze and the Framing of the Earth"

"The plane of composition, which cuts across and thus plunges into, filters
and coheres chaos through the coming into being of sensation, is thus both
an immersion in chaos but also a mode of disruption and ordering of chaos
through the extraction of that which life can glean for itself and its own
intensifications from this whirling complexity-sensations, affects,
percepts, intensities-blocs of bodily becoming that always co-evolve with
blocs of the becoming of matter or events."

Dan:
I think we should take care when putting labels on that which we must not
label. Dynamic Quality and static quality are not binary in any sense of the
word. Static quality emerges from Dynamic Quality.
Experience and Dynamic Quality become synonymous in the MOQ.

[Krimel]
You see no problem with saying that we shouldn't put labels of things and
putting on a label and insisting it must be so. What you said above honestly
sounds paradoxical to me and not in the good way.

Dan:
That may well be, but these patterns are still intellectualized,
conceptualized, are they not? Otherwise, how can we know what we are
discussing? An image doesn't require speech yet when we see it we make the
distinction of the image. When I say the Mona Lisa the image arises, right?

[Krimel]
As I said I see no reason to claim that the patterns of our lives are
conceptualized and intellectualized at all. If they were we would either be
living better more well planned lives or we would never make it out of the
bathroom in the morning because we would be stuck there figuring out the
precise motions required to brush our teeth.

Dan:
It is a pleasure. Good to talk to you again.

[Krimel]
Likewise, I'm sure.