[MD] The Tao of Quality - Verse 1

[Carrie Cisneros]

hi,
I joined recently, and have been merely lurking but this stung me out of my
seat...

>
> Dan:
> Well, I suppose you could say that, thought you seem to be saying
> biological
> patterns are primary when you say we experience them.
> Again, in the MOQ, experience comes first. Static quality patterns like
> rationality and irrationality emerge from experience. They are not
> pre-existing notions.
>
> [Krimel]
> In the morning I am rested; I am hungry
> Then I'm busy until noon.
> I eat and then get busy
> 5 o'clock can't come too soon.
> Time for shopping
> Time for cooking
> Time for running here and there.
> Time for John and Stephen
> And when their over I'll be sleep'n
> Then I'll get up and do it again
> Amen
> I'm gonna get it up again
>
> Life is cycles of systole and diastole
> Of centripetal and centrifugal lines of force.
> We spin through cycles of light and darkness
> Of warmth and cold.
> I think that is Sane Dave's point.
> We are habitual cyclic creatures in our being
> We experience these patterns without a word.
> And we usually do.
>
> But if we like we can talk about all this
> Break it down, if you will.
> We can measures our cycles
> An count our days in coffee spoons.
> We can separate fact from fiction.
> We can construct argument
> Or create common ground.
> But we don't have to.
>
>

Krimel, I love your writings, all I've read so far.  And a poet too?  I
think I'm in love (blush).

Dan, how is biological patterns different than plain old nature, and are we
so sure that there is no intellect or art in nature, and social patterning
for goshsakes, so that it can be called just biological?
thanks,carrie





> Dan:
> Well, I don't know as I said we are confined to the moment. I said we wake
> to the moment. Intellect affords us the advantage of building up a sense of
> not only the past but the future. Intellect emerges from experience,
> however.
>
> [Krimel]
> I thought "in the moment" we were in some pre-intellectual state. Is waking
> a breaking of this pre-intellectual state? How does Intellect wake to the
> moment. Once it awakes up how does it return to a sleep? Are there
> oscillations or a sort of smooth churning of background to foreground and
> back again?
>
> Dan:
> When we are thinking of the present our thinking leads us astray. The
> moment
> arises pure and unsullied. Our thinking encapsulates it into that which we
> know. These distinctions allow us to navigate the world, to survive. These
> discriminations arise from experience, be they rational or irrational.
>
> [Krimel]
> I don't think we think in the present. When we think we leave the present
> and go to whatever we are thinking about. We can do this because the
> present
> doesn't need us. Our bodies work in the world they are thrown into. When
> they need us they have plenty of ways of letting us know. In the mean time
> we can think about whatever we like because our thinking isn't important.
> Our rational selves have so much time on their hands, that they spend much
> of it speaking to themselves; as if we other to ourselves. But the fact is
> most of the internal chatter is so unimportant is doesn't even get in the
> away of our bodies doing what they do.
>
> Dan:
> Well, perhaps Heidegger says so but Pirsig doesn't, nor does James. I would
> be interested in a quote, if you have one handy, just so we can compare. I
> am pretty sure the MOQ would say there is always a lag between our
> experiences of the world and our conceptions of the world.
>
> [Krimel]
> Consider that a rough draft of Heidegger I ought to have more over the next
> few weeks. But the quick and dirty nitty gritty of what I am getting at is
> in Gladwell's "Blink". Ariely's "Predictably Irrational", or Kahnamen's
> "Thinking Fast and Slow." Or anything by Damasio.
> There is this lag. But James says there often is no clear distinction
> between conception and perception as concepts do enter into immediate
> perception and perceptions are distilled into concepts. This is a dynamic
> feedback system after all. If helps, Elizabeth Grosz says it well in her
> book, "Chaos, Territory, Art: Deleuze and the Framing of the Earth"
>
> "The plane of composition, which cuts across and thus plunges into, filters
> and coheres chaos through the coming into being of sensation, is thus both
> an immersion in chaos but also a mode of disruption and ordering of chaos
> through the extraction of that which life can glean for itself and its own
> intensifications from this whirling complexity-sensations, affects,
> percepts, intensities-blocs of bodily becoming that always co-evolve with
> blocs of the becoming of matter or events."
>
> Dan:
> I think we should take care when putting labels on that which we must not
> label. Dynamic Quality and static quality are not binary in any sense of
> the
> word. Static quality emerges from Dynamic Quality.
> Experience and Dynamic Quality become synonymous in the MOQ.
>
> [Krimel]
> You see no problem with saying that we shouldn't put labels of things and
> putting on a label and insisting it must be so. What you said above
> honestly
> sounds paradoxical to me and not in the good way.
>
> Dan:
> That may well be, but these patterns are still intellectualized,
> conceptualized, are they not? Otherwise, how can we know what we are
> discussing? An image doesn't require speech yet when we see it we make the
> distinction of the image. When I say the Mona Lisa the image arises, right?
>
> [Krimel]
> As I said I see no reason to claim that the patterns of our lives are
> conceptualized and intellectualized at all. If they were we would either be
> living better more well planned lives or we would never make it out of the
> bathroom in the morning because we would be stuck there figuring out the
> precise motions required to brush our teeth.
>
> Dan:
> It is a pleasure. Good to talk to you again.
>
> [Krimel]
> Likewise, I'm sure.
>
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