[MD] Horse, Is this proper conduct?

Joseph Maurer jhmau at comcast.net
Sun Mar 17 12:54:54 PDT 2013 

Hi MarshaV and All,

You use "metaphysics of the obvious" as pejorative logic.  Metaphysics is
not vacuous.  I see a limit to mathematical logic. I prefer dialogue to
numbers.  

In the theory of knowledge I find no place for abstraction.  Direct
experience of hierarchical existence reveals limits to conceptualization.

I accept reality as levels in existence, evolution.  I am in favor of a
concept of hierarchical evolutionary reality through limits to the
hierarchical structure.  I can't jump on my horse and ride off in all
directions.

My metaphysical education was the study of SOM.  DQ/SQ is more readily
understood as indefinable individuality, definable reality than
subject/object division.  DQ the indefinable manifests in evolution in
existence of indefinable/definable reality.

Joe




On 3/17/13 12:12 AM, "MarshaV" <valkyr at att.net> wrote:

> 
> Hello Joe,
> 
> Ahh yes, mom, apple pie, critical thinking and truth, a metaphysics of the
> obvious!  
> 
>  
> Marsha
> 
> 
> On Mar 16, 2013, at 9:12 PM, Joseph  Maurer <jhmau at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
>> Hi MarshaV and All,
>> 
>> 
>> On 3/16/13 2:01 AM, "MarshaV" <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mar 15, 2013, at 3:11 PM, Joseph  Maurer <jhmau at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Marsha,
>>>> 
>>>> If dynamic quality, reality, is unknowable why use the term?
>>> 
>>> Are you asking why RMP used language to explain the Metaphysics of Quality?
>> 
>> Hi Marsha
>> 
>> I guess I am stuck in questioning logic!  I do not know how to logical
>> express the unknowable.  Perhaps through analogy, metaphor, gesture.
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> There is a broad spectrum of the knowable.  What is unknowable describing?
>>> 
>>> Since you think it is Dynamic Quality is knowable, you describe it?
>> 
>> There is a difference between the indefinable and the unknowable.  I may not
>> be able to use defined words to describe an unknowable, but I can use
>> gesture, analogy, metaphor to achieve some meaning of indefinable reality.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Limits of reality or limits of knowledge?
>>> 
>>> What are you referring to and in what context?
>> 
>> In Moq metaphysics knowledge is communicated through analogy, metaphor,
>> gesture for DQ as well as words and definitions of SQ.
>> 
>>> 
>>>> To discuss unknowable reality seems futile.
>>> 
>>> Okay.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Supposing there is a broad spectrum to the unknowable, how can we discover
>>>> it?  
>>> 
>>> To say the unknowable is a 'broad spectrum' seems to be assuming too much.
>> Metaphysics accepts the indefinable.  Music, gesture, analogy, metaphor etc.
>> are some ways to make myself understood.
>>> 
>>>> It seems to me discussion and unknowable are at odds unless you accept that
>>>> indefinable and unknowable are synonymous.
>>> 
>>> This might be one way to think about indefinable and unknowable.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> DQ is indefinable. IMHO Unknowable reality stretches the discussion of DQ
>>>> metaphysics to a leap of Faith.
>>> 
>>> It's a 'leap of faith' that when I wake up in the morning, put my feet on
>>> the
>>> floor and stand up that I won't fall through the flooring.  And?
>>> 
>>> I was trying to open the door to Faith and Reason.
>> 
>>>> I would rather tweak rationality into the experience of indefinable
>>>> DQ in consciousness rather than accept indefinable DQ as a leap of faith.
>>> 
>>> In considering a metaphysics - the nature of reality - I would prefer to dig
>>> deep rather than settle for tweaking rationality.  I might consider that
>>> "tweaking rationality" is best handled by holding static patterns of value
>>> as
>>> hypothetical (supposed but not necessarily real or true).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Marsha
>> 
>> I don't want to abandon truth either!
>> 
>>> Joe 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 3/14/13 4:07 PM, "MarshaV" <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Greetings Joe,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am perfectly satisfied with understanding the MoQ designating Reality =
>>>>> Value(Dynamic(indivisible, undefinable and unknowable)/static(divisible,
>>>>> definable and knowable))  :-)
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Marsha 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 14, 2013, at 4:10 PM, Joseph  Maurer <jhmau at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi MarshaV,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am too old (80 plus) to remember philosophy.  I want to jump
>>>>>> immediately
>>>>>> to an indefinable as the limit on an aging process.  DQ is indefinable,
>>>>>> always new, so to speak, and I am alive!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 3/13/13 11:30 PM, "MarshaV" <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hello Joe,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I wondered if you might agree with Nietzsche?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "Compared with music all communication by words is shameless; words
>>>>>>> dilute
>>>>>>> and brutalize; words depersonalize; words make uncommon common."
>>>>>>>       (Nietzsche, Friedrich,  'Will To Power')
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> re fa la
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mar 13, 2013, at 3:51 PM, Joseph  Maurer <jhmau at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi MarshaV,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> IMHO How to describe a theory of knowledge in DQ/SQ experience?  DQ,
>>>>>>>> indefinable self-consciousness along with definable SQ structure,
>>>>>>>> enables
>>>>>>>> self-directed activity.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> SQ, defined reality, places the limit of definition on an indefinable
>>>>>>>> DQ
>>>>>>>> emotional self-consciousness.  Definitions aid communication.  Music is
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> more immediate less structured communication in its emotional origins.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> What is logic?  The Intellect and freewill of activity are tied to a
>>>>>>>> common
>>>>>>>> limit, self-awareness.  I can't jump on my horse and ride off in all
>>>>>>>> directions.  Logic describes limits on knowledge in the structure of
>>>>>>>> self
>>>>>>>> awareness DQ/SQ.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Music is an harmonious structure, more revealing in some ways in being
>>>>>>>> less
>>>>>>>> subject to SQ discipline than logic.  Music evokes more intensity in
>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>> indefinable emotional origins than intellectual logic.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 3/13/13 12:40 AM, "MarshaV" <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Schopenhauer believed that the mediations of art in general, but
>>>>>>>>> particularly
>>>>>>>>> music, were more directly able to reveal the nature of reality than
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> philosophy.
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