[MD] Static patterns are ever-changing?!? i

[MarshaV]

Adrie,

RMP may correct my understanding of what he has presented as the MoQ, but not you or dmb.  You and he are participants in an ongoing discussion, not ultimate authorities.   Yawn...

 
Marsha 
 
 





> On Oct 4, 2013, at 4:11 AM, ADRIE KINTZIGER <parser666 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> You are so confused , Marsha.  The monkey mind is yours; you do not understand
> what Pirsig wrote or what Dmb is writing.
> You even fail on basic language terminology.
> somebody should boot you off the forum, really.
> 
> Dm has a legitimate point, it does not belong on top of the pyramid, but it
> surely is part of the foundation of it.
> Troll
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2013/10/4 MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
> 
>> 
>> dmb,
>> 
>> You have never explained how differentiated (smells, sounds, tastes,
>> visions, and feelings) could possibly be Dynamic Quality, the
>> undifferentiated.  And you are not explaining it now, and neither are the
>> mismatched quotes you've thrown at the issue.  Discerning this or that
>> perception comes later and is static.  Re-cognized experience is always
>> static.  Change, time, space, smells, sounds, tastes, visions, and feelings
>> are static patterns.   Dynamic Quality is undifferentiated, "not this, not
>> that", not smells, sounds, tastes, visions, or feelings.  Direct awareness
>> of static patterns of (perceived, without accompanying concepts/language)
>> value is a state of mindfulness, not Dynamic Quality, and not Nirvana.
>> 
>> You should learn to turn off the monkey mind.  To do just that is a big
>> deal, but not the ultimate experience of Dynamic Quality.  Imho.
>> 
>> Find out for yourself.
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> On Oct 3, 2013, at 5:50 PM, david buchanan <dmbuchanan at hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> It's been a while, but I have addressed this question (about
>> pre-conceputal experience) many, many times. No matter how hard I try, the
>> answers never satisfy and the question comes back around again.
>>> 
>>> Over a year ago, 8th of July, 2012,  Marsha asked:
>>> How can Dynamic Quality or 'pure experience', which is undifferentiated,
>> include perceptions which are differentiated?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sigh. I'd really rather not go through it all again, especially with
>> these guys. There's no way they're going to understand it.   But here are a
>> few thoughts for you to ponder...
>>> 
>>> On Jul 7, 2012, at 3:43 PM, david buchanan quoted:
>>> 
>>> “When Zen teachers introduce students to nirvana (which the MOQ
>> translates as the world of pure undifferentiated value) they do not do so
>> with books and thesis. They sit the students in a room until their clutter
>> of intellectual knowledge is abandoned (especially values judgments!) and
>> the pure vision of the newborn infant is regained” (McWatt 2004, 83).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> "Only new-born babes, or men in semi-coma from sleep, drugs, illnesses,
>> or blows, may be assumed to have an experience pure in the literal sense of
>> that which is not yet any definite what, tho ready to be all sorts of
>> whats; full both of oneness and of manyness, but in respects that don't
>> appear; changing throughout, yet so confusedly that its phases
>> interpenetrate and no points, either of distinction or ofidentity, can be
>> caught. Pure experience in this state is but another name for feeling or
>> sensation. But the flux of it no sooner comes than it tends to fill itself
>> with emphases, and these salient parts become identified and fixed and
>> abstracted; so that experience now flows as if shot through with adjectives
>> and nouns and prepositions and conjunctions. Its purity is only a relative
>> term, meaning the proportional amount of unverbalized sensation which it
>> still embodies." - William James - Essays in Radical Empiricism.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> " 'There must always be a discrepancy between concepts and reality,
>> because the former are static and discontinuous while the latter is dynamic
>> and flowing.' Here James had chosen exactly the same words Phaedrus had
>> used for the basic subdivision of the Metaphysics of Quality." Pirsig
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> 
> 
> -- 
> parser
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