[MD] Static Patterns Rock!

[Andre]

Marsha to dmb & Andre:
The purpose of mystic meditation is not to remove oneself from 
experience but to bring one's self closer to it by eliminating stale, 
confusing, static, intellectual attachments of the past. " (LILA, Chapter 9)

I have no direct experience of the atomic bombs that dropped on 
Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Tell me what you know of the atomic bombs that 
dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki and how you know it?

Andre:
And this is your 'defense' regarding your conditional and hypothetical 
moral denial (!) of the reality of the dropping of the atomic bombs and 
the horror called the holocaust? Appealing to your vipassana injunctions?

The incredible horror of your stance and its implications are beyond 
your intellectual grasp. You literally fail to comprehend the 
implications of what you are saying.

Because you did not have 'direct experience' of it? Bloody hell! Those 
that DID directly experience it are DEAD Lucy. In your warped and 
bigoted way of reasoning those few that survived came close but did not 
have the same direct experience. So what do they know eh? And what did 
they leave behind for us?

What a pathetic, morally contemptible response totally at odds with the 
MoQ. And not only with the MoQ.

All of the perennial philosophies, all the wisdom traditions, all the 
saints and sages over the past few millennia who stuck their heads out 
to teach, advise and assist and write when and where needed. Some were 
even killed for it. Marsha does not even speak from the perspective of 
'the wold of the buddhas'.

Do you think they did that because they were convinced that sq patterns 
were 'like an illusion'?

May as well discuss whether the actions of a Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol 
Pot, Mugabe, Idi Amin, Nixon, Bush and many others, (responsible for the 
killing of over 100 million people during the last century) were 
'conditionally', or 'like an illusion' real or not. The promulgation of 
this sort of reasoning undermines the MoQ to no end and I doubt very 
much if Pirsig himself is impressed with this (alleged) (ab)use of his 
MoQ interpretation. And I mention this because she cites Anthony's PhD 
and Pirsig's writings to legitimize these claims.

I would go so far as thinking that any poster here on this discuss would 
find this unacceptable. But, apart from dmb's efforts no-one has 
reacted.We find ourselves having to defend and justify a moral position 
that acknowledges mankind's worst atrocities (the very center of some of 
the moral codes Pirsig identified) as real as rocks and trees and find 
this position opposed by an anti-intellectualism and subjective 
solipsism that does not seem to have any bounds. If there is one it is 
surrounded by egotistical narcissism.

I urge Horse to take some sort of action. This is doing the Discuss nor 
Pirsig's MoQ any good. I openly and blatantly request Marsha (in true 
Lucy form) to be removed from this MoQ discussion site, whether is be 
temporarily or permanently