[MD] Un-Pure Experience

[Andre]

D.Thomas to dmb:
But you must admit that Pirsig, from a philosophical perspective, is not 
much on providing definitions.

Andre:
Huh? Only that which cannot be defined. Just look, as an example, to 
Annotation 46 of Lila's Child. Furthermore about these 
annotations...they can all be seen as clarifications/definitions of what 
Pirsig means.

So what does David T want defined? He continues:

'"Direct experience" is not a commonly used phrase in everyday American 
speech. But this phase is very common, if not essential to Buddhism.'

Andre:
Ah, he wants 'Direct experience' defined. David attempts clarification 
by pulling in Buddhism: 'So to explore both fields he gave us 
kayanupassana (observation of the body) and cittanupassana (observation 
of the mind)"' And, to be clear sees this as a definition of 'Direct 
experience'. Later he pulls Mao in and contrasts them.

Baffled he asks:
 From the way that Pirsig uses "direct experience" in his axiom; How can 
you be sure which way he is using it? Is it internal observation of 
one's own mind and body or is it Mao's external observation of one's 
environment, or both ? How do you know? I surely can't make the distinction.

Andre:
You have set up a wonderful red herring. A straw man I suppose and it's 
really of your own making. Of course you cannot make the distinction you 
yourself set up because both are NOT what Pirsig means by Quality (pure 
experience/DQ). The 'exploration' you are talking about is sq all the 
way and has nothing to do with DQ.

And, by the way, where do you see the line demarcating 
internal/external? There's no such thing!

David T:
And the Pirsig example that I go back to again and again is his claim 
that "capitalism" is a social pattern, while "communism" is an 
intellectual one.

Andre:
This is blatantly not true David. Pirsig argues that socialism is an 
intellectually GUIDED society. Capitalism just a system for justifying 
the exploitation of the poor by the rich to support their own 
self-interest. (LILA,p 225)
You're jumbling things up that are simply not so.

Enough for now.