[MD] Art and Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

[Ian Glendinning]

Hi John,
Yes. Or to bastardise a Pirsig phrase:

Do we need anyone to define these things for us ?

Ian

On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 5:42 AM, John Carl <ridgecoyote at gmail.com> wrote:
> I had a thought the other day Ian about this subject.  Help me to see if it
> fits.
>
> Terms like intellect and free will are tricky to define because they are
> experiences, not definitions.
>
> You experience intellect when you think in certain ways.  Trying to pin
> that down exactly is a pain in the butt, but
> the experience of doing it is plain and obvious.  Same goes with free
> will.  It's not a real big problem unless you run
> up against somebody who thinks everything that is real is definable.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 1:31 PM, Ian Glendinning
> <ian.glendinning at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> When are we going to lose these pointless degenerate myths like "free will
>> is undefinable" ffs?
>>
>> Free will is as well (un)defined as any other "object" in this real MoQish
>> world.
>>
>> Still, I guess it helps to maintain the mysterious myth if your objective
>> is to justify interminable gain-saying "argument" for as long as your
>> academic career requires it.
>>
>> Ian
>>  On 7 Jan 2014 20:10, "Joseph Maurer" <jhmau at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Andre and All,
>> >
>> > DQ/SQ, indefinable/definable!  A structure which supports indefinable
>> > reality must include aspects of reality which are indefinable like
>> > free-will
>> > which remains outside of definition through freedom.   If I can't make a
>> > mistake in what I choose I am not held responsible for my choice.
>> >
>> > I have to pay the consequences of the choice.  Free will makes manifest
>> > metaphysical restraints for manifestation in the DQ/SQ structure.  Pardon
>> > me
>> > I am mistaken!
>> >
>> > Joe
>> >
>> >
>> > On 1/7/14 8:46 AM, "Andre" <andrebroersen at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Joe to Andre:
>> > > DQ experience itself is indefinable metaphysics.
>> > >
>> > > Andre:
>> > > Huh?
>> > >
>> > > Joe:
>> > > Consciousness of individuality coupled with life anchors a possibility
>> > > for describing an experience of indefinable reality. Metaphysics MOQ
>> > > accepts a reality of DQ/SQ experience in individuality. Sentient
>> > > consciousness, freewill, upholds the awareness needed for DQ/SQ.
>> Animals
>> > > follow mechanical instinct.
>> > >
>> > > Andre:
>> > > Sorry Joe but I have no idea what you are saying...what point(s)you are
>> > > trying to make.
>> > > Moq_Discuss mailing list
>> > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>> > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>> > > Archives:
>> > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>> > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>> >
>> >
>> > Moq_Discuss mailing list
>> > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>> > Archives:
>> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>> > http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>> >
>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>> Archives:
>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org/md/archives.html