[MD] Art and Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

[John Carl]

Ian,

You recently complained about the amount of garbage in your inbox when you
subscribed to lilasquad.  So I thought I'd cross-post my response over
there, to you here and now.  I won't make it a habit, but it seemed
relevant to the very thing causing  your eye-rolling below.


On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Ian Glendinning
<ian.glendinning at gmail.com>wrote:

> So Andre advises Joe to read ZMM & Lila, and Joe tells me Pirsig's
> metaphysics is defined by words defined by logic.
>
> "Roll-eyes"
> Ian
> On 9 Jan 2014 19:57, "Joseph Maurer" <jhmau at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Hi Ian and All,
> >
> > In DQ/SQ metaphysics words express reality through logic, logos-logic.
>  DQ
> > is indefinable, maintaining meaning through structure, metaphysics,
> words.
> > How can a meaning of words be indefinable?  One size does not fit all!
> Keep
> > looking DQ/SQ until you feel satisfied!  Individuality has meaning
> before 1
> > moves.  DQ/SQ hosts structure, reality.
> >
> > Joe
>

There is no doubt that Tim is bright.  Nor is there any doubt that he has
trouble being socially accepted - the signs are all around.  And as people
who are interested in the life and work of Robert M. Pirsig, we all have a
certain amount of sympathy for intellectual social rejects.

But no group can put up with an individual who is so out of whack that he
refuses to abide by common communication norms.   TCP/IP wouldn't work if
acks were gibberish and likewise, human discourse requires a linguistic
common ground in order to function.  If the gibberish shows promise of
evolving toward some system of understanding then we can be patient while
it gets worked out, but if it's just getting more and more insane and hard
to understand, then it's going in the wrong direction.  And blurting out
gibberish has a way of putting off newcomers to the list - it obviates
growth which means it's violent towards any success.  None of us are here
solely to please ourselves.  We all want better communication and
understanding.  Without that premise, that caring, we are doomed.

It takes caring about others, to put your words and ideas into easily
understood format.   When that care is not taken, it shows the opposite of
care - it shows disdain.

Tim may hate his mother, hate his life, hate the world he lives in, but why
should we all be the brunt of his anger?  We didn't cause his problems.
The fact that we can't solve them isn't because we don't care, it's just
the way reality works.  "Work out YOUR OWN salvation in fear and
trembling."  (Phil. 2:12)  Don't come bugging us about it.


Maybe I'm wrong about all this.  I'm willing to listen to reason.  But
spamming my inbox with verbal temper tantrums just pisses me off.

John