[MD] Anti-intellectualism revisited

[John Carl]

Ron,


On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Ron Kulp <xacto at rocketmail.com> wrote:

>
> John,
> Let's look again at the philosophical
> Meat and potatoes offered up, sans
> "Pirsig sez" that seemed to be over looked in your reply:
>


Jc:  Ok.

RK:


>
> >>>>> "Art is born when out of the many bits if information
> >>> derived
> >>>>> from experience there emerges a grasp of those similarities in view
> of
> >>>>> which they are unified whole."
> >>>>> Aristotle metaphysics book alpha.
>

Jc:

Well, I hate to argue with Ari, but it's been done before... so here goes.
First off, the way I construe what he's saying, is that substance
interacting with knowledge, births art.  Is that right?  Bit's of
information, begs the questions of cultural, conceptual frameworks and it
doesn't seem to match the actual birth of art in experience.  Einstein
didn't come up with his elegant statement, or Leonardo with Mona Lisa's
smile, through many bits of information derived from experience.  There
were millions such, deriving the same bits of information, from similar
experience.  Art is born of DQ, and nothing else that I can think of.

Ron quoting Ari:

>>>>>
> >>>>> "Knowing in the truest sense concerns
> >>>>> What is best in the truest sense.
>

Jc:  Absolutely true!

 R-A:

So intellect finds it's fulfillment in
> >>>>> being aware of the intelligible. "
> >>>>>
>


Jc:  Full awareness of the intelligible is too big a task, for modern man.
There's become too much to conceptualize, since Ari's time.
So intellect discriminates.  It categorizes and wields that analytic
knife.  Intellect isn't content with mere awareness.  Intellect seeks
understanding.  That's where intellect finds its peace of mind.

R-A:

>>>>> "It is this better state that the divine has being and life, the self
> >>>>> sufficient activity of the divine is life at its eternal best."
> >>>>> - book Lambda
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To the Greeks knowing what is best
> >>>>> Is the divine aspect of being.
>
> Intellect is the creative act of understanding experience.
>
>
Jc:  Intellect is dualistic in nature, then?  There is a logical/analytic
aspect, and a creative, imaginary aspect?

R-A:


> It is a divine act, it is the knowledge of the Good. Therefore an extension
> Of the Good. That's why the Greeks put it at the top, intellect was an
> extension of god the creative source,
> Intellect, the creative act of being.
>
> Let's address this because it has a lot to do with RMPs project.
>
> -Ron
>
>
I was talking to Dan about Jacob Needleman - here's an excerpt from a book
on his website
<http://jacobneedleman.squarespace.com/books/necessary-wisdom.html>:

NEEDLEMAN: The basic idea of Stoicism is that we are essentially one with
the great self, or Logos of the universe. That’s our true nature. We
exercise that true nature by the capacity of the mind to relate consciously
to its experiences — to accept, understand, or receive them without the
preferences of liking or disliking those experiences, or responding with
fear or craving. Nor does a true stoic try to reinterpret experiences, make
them more or less dramatic, or good or bad. The stoic receives all
experiences with an inner quiet.

It reminded me of my friend Steve, since he's the co-owner of the stoics
mailing list.  I've asked him a bunch of times, to rejoin MD but he's too
busy over there.  So I joined it today.  We'll see what it's like.  If they
let me in.  heh.


I think there is an aspect of intellect, that is very close to DQ.
Intellect is indefinable and yeah, I know everything is, but intellect is
indefinable in a special way - since it's the means of defining as well.
So defining intellect, is most of all,  more a creative art than a
rigorously logical process.

That's all I'm sayin'.

John C.