[MD] Post-Intellectualism

[Andre]

John said to Dan:
Jc: I have trouble with that, at least as it pertains to the 3rd and 
4th. Society and Intellect are so intertwined - all intellect is 
predicated upon socially derived symbology and all social patterns have 
some sort of guiding 4th level metaphysical underpinnings of which they 
are unconscious. When you try and apply the analytical knife, the 
subject gets very slippery. Pirsig himself said when it comes to social 
patterns, it's hard to picture anything that isn't one.

Andre:
To distinguish the social level from the intellectual level let me offer 
an example John. It is rather _simplistic_ but see it as a starting 
metaphor: imagine a game of football or soccer...the players are 
representing social patterns of value. There are rules to this game and 
codes of conduct. Enter the umpire. This is representative of 
intellectual patterns of value. The umpire keeps an eye on adherence to 
the rules of the game and the codes of conduct _of which the players are 
aware_. But that is not their prime objective. Their prime objective is 
to score points or a goal (fame, fortune and glory). All the umpire does 
is making sure the game is played within the rules and codes of conduct. 
Sometimes he or she acts/intervenes when an infringement or violation 
occurs. At other times he or she just watches to keep an eye on 
developments.

Now, are the players in competition with the umpire (as you claim)? 
NO!!! But the umpire is most definitely in conflict with the 
player(s)and vice versa (usually pleading innocence or ignorance) who 
commit an infringement or violate a rule.

Are they 'intertwined'? That depends on one's state of confusion. Can 
you still see the forest for the trees? Usually, as in the example, the 
dress is quite different and the umpire or referee has a whistle. That 
is how they are easily distinguished. If you do not know the game and 
wonder what this bloke or lass is doing with a whistle in their mouth? 
Just watch the game unfold and you'll soon find out.

So now, forget the bodies and the dress and the whistle and see patterns 
of value...social patterns and intellectual patterns. Are these patterns 
intertwined? That depends on how carefully you look. It may seem that 
way but they are not because we talk of two different sets of values.

(Perhaps here John you may want to consult Gregory Alvord's response to 
Anthony's PhD to be found at the robertpirsig site).

The rules of the game and codes codes of conduct(derived 
from)intellectual patterns of value.

A famous Dutch trainer/coach argued that soccer is war. (remember here 
the Geneva Convention where, even in wartime, there are codes of conduct 
based on intellectual patterns of value...justice, human rights etc). 
This is where, for example the International War Tribunal in The Hague 
finds its existence in[...not recognized by the USA by the way].

Hope this helps a little.