[MD] Thank You, Past Posts Re-up Request, and Intellectual Value Over Biological Value
Dan Glover
daneglover at gmail.com
Tue Aug 2 21:16:01 PDT 2016
Nick, all,
On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 12:38 PM, ngriffis <ngriffis at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> Nick: Thank you, Dan, for the reference to ZMM free download. I found
> that I could put in a key word/phrase and the pdf document would cite every
> page where that word/phrase was to be found. This is a great way to be able
> to resource information...ah! technology. When it has Quality, it is a good
> thing :)
Dan:
Yes, the e-version of ZMM is a delight!
>
>
>
> Mention has been made of Turner's Letter, Persig's reply letter to
> Turner, and a compilation of first year Lila Squad discussions titled
> "Lila's Child"
>
>
>
> Nick Question: Would anyone be kind enough to direct me to these
> documents or would any one post them for new comers to access and learn
> from. Thank you
Dan:
Paul Turner's letter was available (I thought) at www.robertpirsig.org
but I can't seem to find it now. I don't seem to see it on moq.org
either. I do have a copy in my files I can forward to you. As far as
Lila's Child, it is available through Amazon. Or if you say pretty
please I can send you an e-copy. :-)
>
>
>
> Nick: Finally, Patterns of Value has been discussed here recently. It
> has been said that there is a hierarchy of patterns and that the higher
> pattern of value has precedent over lower patterns:
>
>
>
>> Chapter 13 of LILA.
>
>>"Just as it is more moral for a
>
> doctor to kill a germ than a patient, so it is more moral for an idea to
>
> kill a society than it is for a society to kill an idea."
>
>
>
> Nick Question: Did Pirsig really say this?
Dan:
Yes.
> This cannot be right. Much
> more towards MOQ is, I believe:
>
>
>
>> "This observation is impossible in a substance-dominated metaphysics where
> everything has to be an extension of matter. But now atoms and molecules are
> just one of four levels of static patterns of quality and there is no
> intellectual requirement that any level dominate the other three." [Robert
> Pirsig]
>
>
>
> Nick: Perhaps, I have taken the germ metaphor out of context and
> Pirsig does not put forward the concept that an idea killing a society is
> more moral than a society killing an idea.
Dan:
Yes, he does put forward that concept in Lila. Ideas are at a higher
level of evolution than social patterns.
>
> Also, I suppose that Pirsig can only give us a map to Quality. The
> ideas of MOQ are just the map and that we are "finally and completely
> trapped into making quality judgments for" ourselves to climb the mountains
> and traverse the territory. Thank you: Dan.
Dan:
You are welcome.
>
> To conclude, I send my greetings to John and Tuukka. Tuukka, hang in
> there. I wish you well and right along with you, I, too, am seeking how to
> reach for greater Quality.
>
> Being isolated can lead to quality because it allows one to think
> more deeply. Being isolated can lead to negative quality because, I believe,
> it is hard-wired into our biology to be with other people.
Dan:
I tend to be pretty isolated. If not for that, I'd get very little
accomplished so far as writing goes. That, and I don't seem to play
well with others. Too, the only time I feel alone is when I am in a
room full of people.
>
> Further, seemingly through the ages, we have come to value that
> having "purpose" in our lives moves us closer to quality. Dan seems to find
> this in his writing.
Dan:
I don't know that I'd call my writing a purpose. It is more an addiction.
> I am still working on finding my purpose. I know what
> it is "not" though, just as we know what is an essay that lacks quality :)
> Pirsig gave us the guideline that we can know what Quality is. Charlie
> Munger, a popular philosopher-business man of today, urges us to always
> "invert". That is: always turn what you are thinking about to its' opposite,
> to its' upside-downness. Then take a look at that possibility. That might be
> an addendum guideline to seeking quality, the realization that knowing what
> is "not" bringing us towards quality also can help. Here is to finding more
> Quality and purpose.
Dan:
I see Charlie Munger is an associate of Warren Buffett. His partner,
in fact, at least according to Buffett. Which isn't in itself a bad
thing, but I remember being troubled by some of Buffett's investment
advice concerning tobacco company stocks and how they were his
preferred vehicle for profit in that tobacco companies manufactured a
highly addictive product. That bothers me, more than a little, really.
So his, Munger's, philosophy of ethical business practice is (to me)
suspect, at least by association. On the other hand, he is a
billionaire so I suppose he must be a really sharp guy.
Thank you,
Dan
http://www.danglover.com
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