[MD] Thank You, Past Posts Re-up Request, and Intellectual Value Over Biological Value

[Horse]

Hi MOQ Folks

The 'Letter to Paul Turner' from Robert Pirsig can be found at:
http://www.moq.org/forum/Pirsig/LetterFromRMPSept2003.html

Hope that helps :)

Horse

On 03/08/2016 05:16, Dan Glover wrote:
> Nick, all,
>
> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 12:38 PM, ngriffis <ngriffis at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>> Nick:       Thank you, Dan, for the reference to ZMM free download. I found
>> that I could put in a key word/phrase and the pdf document would cite every
>> page where that word/phrase was to be found. This is a great way to be able
>> to resource information...ah! technology. When it has Quality, it is a good
>> thing :)
> Dan:
> Yes, the e-version of ZMM is a delight!
>
>>
>>
>>          Mention has been made of Turner's Letter, Persig's reply letter to
>> Turner, and a compilation of first year Lila Squad discussions titled
>> "Lila's Child"
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick Question:       Would anyone be kind enough to direct me to these
>> documents or would any one post them for new comers to access and learn
>> from. Thank you
> Dan:
> Paul Turner's letter was available (I thought) at www.robertpirsig.org
> but I can't seem to find it now. I don't seem to see it on moq.org
> either. I do have a copy in my files I can forward to you. As far as
> Lila's Child, it is available through Amazon. Or if you say pretty
> please I can send you an e-copy. :-)
>
>>
>>
>> Nick:       Finally, Patterns of Value has been discussed here recently. It
>> has been said that there is a hierarchy of patterns and that the higher
>> pattern of value has precedent over lower patterns:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Chapter 13 of LILA.
>>> "Just as it is more moral for a
>> doctor to kill a germ than a patient, so it is more moral for an idea to
>>
>> kill a society than it is for a society to kill an idea."
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick Question:       Did Pirsig really say this?
> Dan:
> Yes.
>
>
>> This cannot be right. Much
>> more towards MOQ is, I believe:
>>
>>
>>
>>> "This observation is impossible in a substance-dominated metaphysics where
>> everything has to be an extension of matter. But now atoms and molecules are
>> just one of four levels of static patterns of quality and there is no
>> intellectual requirement that any level dominate the other three." [Robert
>> Pirsig]
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick:       Perhaps, I have taken the germ metaphor out of context and
>> Pirsig does not put forward the concept that an idea killing a society is
>> more moral than a society killing an idea.
> Dan:
> Yes, he does put forward that concept in Lila. Ideas are at a higher
> level of evolution than social patterns.
>
>>          Also, I suppose that Pirsig can only give us a map to Quality. The
>> ideas of MOQ are just the map and that we are "finally and completely
>> trapped into making quality judgments for" ourselves to climb the mountains
>> and traverse the territory. Thank you: Dan.
> Dan:
> You are welcome.
>
>>          To conclude, I send my greetings to John and Tuukka. Tuukka, hang in
>> there. I wish you well and right along with you, I, too, am seeking how to
>> reach for greater Quality.
>>
>>          Being isolated can lead to quality because it allows one to think
>> more deeply. Being isolated can lead to negative quality because, I believe,
>> it is hard-wired into our biology to be with other people.
> Dan:
> I tend to be pretty isolated. If not for that, I'd get very little
> accomplished so far as writing goes. That, and I don't seem to play
> well with others. Too, the only time I feel alone is when I am in a
> room full of people.
>
>>          Further, seemingly through the ages, we have come to value that
>> having "purpose" in our lives moves us closer to quality. Dan seems to find
>> this in his writing.
> Dan:
> I don't know that I'd call my writing a purpose. It is more an addiction.
>
>> I am still working on finding my purpose. I know what
>> it is "not" though, just as we know what is an essay that lacks quality :)
>> Pirsig gave us the guideline that we can know what Quality is. Charlie
>> Munger, a popular philosopher-business man of today, urges us to always
>> "invert". That is: always turn what you are thinking about to its' opposite,
>> to its' upside-downness. Then take a look at that possibility. That might be
>> an addendum guideline to seeking quality, the realization that knowing what
>> is "not" bringing us towards quality also can help.  Here is to finding more
>> Quality and purpose.
> Dan:
> I see Charlie Munger is an associate of Warren Buffett. His partner,
> in fact, at least according to Buffett. Which isn't in itself a bad
> thing, but I remember being troubled by some of Buffett's investment
> advice concerning tobacco company stocks and how they were his
> preferred vehicle for profit in that tobacco companies manufactured a
> highly addictive product. That bothers me, more than a little, really.
> So his, Munger's, philosophy of ethical business practice is (to me)
> suspect, at least by association. On the other hand, he is a
> billionaire so I suppose he must be a really sharp guy.
>
> Thank you,
> Dan
>
> http://www.danglover.com
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