[MD] Thank You, Past Posts Re-up Request, and Intellectual Value Over Biological Value

[Dan Glover]

Thanks, Horse! I musta missed it.

On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 9:58 AM, Horse <horse at darkstar.uk.net> wrote:
> Hi MOQ Folks
>
> The 'Letter to Paul Turner' from Robert Pirsig can be found at:
> http://www.moq.org/forum/Pirsig/LetterFromRMPSept2003.html
>
> Hope that helps :)
>
> Horse
>
>
> On 03/08/2016 05:16, Dan Glover wrote:
>>
>> Nick, all,
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 12:38 PM, ngriffis <ngriffis at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Nick:       Thank you, Dan, for the reference to ZMM free download. I
>>> found
>>> that I could put in a key word/phrase and the pdf document would cite
>>> every
>>> page where that word/phrase was to be found. This is a great way to be
>>> able
>>> to resource information...ah! technology. When it has Quality, it is a
>>> good
>>> thing :)
>>
>> Dan:
>> Yes, the e-version of ZMM is a delight!
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>          Mention has been made of Turner's Letter, Persig's reply letter
>>> to
>>> Turner, and a compilation of first year Lila Squad discussions titled
>>> "Lila's Child"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nick Question:       Would anyone be kind enough to direct me to these
>>> documents or would any one post them for new comers to access and learn
>>> from. Thank you
>>
>> Dan:
>> Paul Turner's letter was available (I thought) at www.robertpirsig.org
>> but I can't seem to find it now. I don't seem to see it on moq.org
>> either. I do have a copy in my files I can forward to you. As far as
>> Lila's Child, it is available through Amazon. Or if you say pretty
>> please I can send you an e-copy. :-)
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nick:       Finally, Patterns of Value has been discussed here recently.
>>> It
>>> has been said that there is a hierarchy of patterns and that the higher
>>> pattern of value has precedent over lower patterns:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Chapter 13 of LILA.
>>>> "Just as it is more moral for a
>>>
>>> doctor to kill a germ than a patient, so it is more moral for an idea to
>>>
>>> kill a society than it is for a society to kill an idea."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nick Question:       Did Pirsig really say this?
>>
>> Dan:
>> Yes.
>>
>>
>>> This cannot be right. Much
>>> more towards MOQ is, I believe:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> "This observation is impossible in a substance-dominated metaphysics
>>>> where
>>>
>>> everything has to be an extension of matter. But now atoms and molecules
>>> are
>>> just one of four levels of static patterns of quality and there is no
>>> intellectual requirement that any level dominate the other three."
>>> [Robert
>>> Pirsig]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nick:       Perhaps, I have taken the germ metaphor out of context and
>>> Pirsig does not put forward the concept that an idea killing a society is
>>> more moral than a society killing an idea.
>>
>> Dan:
>> Yes, he does put forward that concept in Lila. Ideas are at a higher
>> level of evolution than social patterns.
>>
>>>          Also, I suppose that Pirsig can only give us a map to Quality.
>>> The
>>> ideas of MOQ are just the map and that we are "finally and completely
>>> trapped into making quality judgments for" ourselves to climb the
>>> mountains
>>> and traverse the territory. Thank you: Dan.
>>
>> Dan:
>> You are welcome.
>>
>>>          To conclude, I send my greetings to John and Tuukka. Tuukka,
>>> hang in
>>> there. I wish you well and right along with you, I, too, am seeking how
>>> to
>>> reach for greater Quality.
>>>
>>>          Being isolated can lead to quality because it allows one to
>>> think
>>> more deeply. Being isolated can lead to negative quality because, I
>>> believe,
>>> it is hard-wired into our biology to be with other people.
>>
>> Dan:
>> I tend to be pretty isolated. If not for that, I'd get very little
>> accomplished so far as writing goes. That, and I don't seem to play
>> well with others. Too, the only time I feel alone is when I am in a
>> room full of people.
>>
>>>          Further, seemingly through the ages, we have come to value that
>>> having "purpose" in our lives moves us closer to quality. Dan seems to
>>> find
>>> this in his writing.
>>
>> Dan:
>> I don't know that I'd call my writing a purpose. It is more an addiction.
>>
>>> I am still working on finding my purpose. I know what
>>> it is "not" though, just as we know what is an essay that lacks quality
>>> :)
>>> Pirsig gave us the guideline that we can know what Quality is. Charlie
>>> Munger, a popular philosopher-business man of today, urges us to always
>>> "invert". That is: always turn what you are thinking about to its'
>>> opposite,
>>> to its' upside-downness. Then take a look at that possibility. That might
>>> be
>>> an addendum guideline to seeking quality, the realization that knowing
>>> what
>>> is "not" bringing us towards quality also can help.  Here is to finding
>>> more
>>> Quality and purpose.
>>
>> Dan:
>> I see Charlie Munger is an associate of Warren Buffett. His partner,
>> in fact, at least according to Buffett. Which isn't in itself a bad
>> thing, but I remember being troubled by some of Buffett's investment
>> advice concerning tobacco company stocks and how they were his
>> preferred vehicle for profit in that tobacco companies manufactured a
>> highly addictive product. That bothers me, more than a little, really.
>> So his, Munger's, philosophy of ethical business practice is (to me)
>> suspect, at least by association. On the other hand, he is a
>> billionaire so I suppose he must be a really sharp guy.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Dan
>>
>> http://www.danglover.com
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