[MD] Rhetoric

Sun Dec 4 07:03:20 PST 2016

@Tuuk.

Your statement above is not entirely correct.And i do not think it would be
honest to say that you cannot post mail's here without someone else
trys to copulate with it either.
I took a big snip back from the beginning of the thread.
"quote", Tuukka.

If you're calling me unnatural, I agree. I trek and am familiar with
nature, I feel it. But there are degrees of separation from nature.
Consider the guy who designs the electronics inside your cell phone. He's
pretty far detached from nature. But then again, consider an African with a
cell phone. He possibly owns very few electronic devices. But many Africans
do have a cell phone. I think the African with the cell phone is less
detached from nature than the guys (and girls) who designed the electronics
and coded the software inside.

So, these nerds (Hell if Adrie doesn't accuse me of being a nerd. I could
call him a flibbertigibbet but that would go nowhere.) change nature. They
could some day create nature on different planet. I know, that doesn't
interest anyone here, clearly. But they could still do it.

The point is, technology can help us express our nature. And if technology
gets good enough we will have more time to cultivate the delightful aspects
of what does it mean to be a biological organism. Which is what you want.
But you don't want to be part of the process if that requires you to change
your thinking. You only want the result. And do you know why that makes me
feel bad?

It makes me feel bad because I have to do this because of who I am. I don't
have enough social skills. If I try to do that "emotional intelligence"
thing people do at my posts, which apparently means throwing poop at them
like monkeys or staring at them like ducks, I end up doing something else
than maximizing my potential.

But the paradox in me maximizing my potential is in me doing things that
don't make me happy. That don't mean living a full life. So, I'm always
balancing between "you're going to break yourself that way" and "now you're
just trying to drown the pain you feel all the time".

The break myself part means that I don't eat, I don't have a social life, I
get so serious and competitive I start feeling intimidated by people with
good social skills... because I'm so serious I don't feel like I'm going to
enlighten people like some guy in a robe. I feel like I'm going to KILL the
ignorance in them like some guy driving a tank. So, obviously my natural
instinct becomes to suspect that the emotionally intelligent people share
this mindset even though they're just getting good vibes from helping
people. I feel like they're punishing me for who I am because I can't
behave up to their standards.

But sometimes I get so sick of that. I'm really not inhumane enough.
Because that serious and competitive attitude does make me sick. So then I
try to feel. Live a life of feelings. And it's difficult because usually I
really don't care. If I love someone, then I care. Otherwise I really don't
care. I'm not sure what "universal love" means or whether it's attainable
for me. Sometimes temporarily it may be.

And you think I live this way because I think it's a good way to live a
life. No, I don't think anybody should live like this unless they're good
at what they do. If you do this but you're never going to be good at it,
well, unless somebody pays you to do it anyway, or unless you do it just
for fun, stop doing it. That's my advice to anyone.

You don't need to teach me I'm hurting myself by living this kind of a
life. I know it already. I'm not imposing a lifestyle on you! I'm only
imposing the results of my pain-in-the-ass research on you. I could do
something else. A lot of people would want me to draw cartoons. But nobody
has ever told me a coherent acount of why I couldn't be extremely good at
this. I think I'm better at this than anyone I know. Yup, another proof
that I have no social skills. A suave person might have thought that of
himself but wouldn't have said it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Comment.
I did not call you a nerd, nor doi think you are a nerd.What you wrote
above is very consistent,taken from real life itself,and seems very honest
and open.
It is not a bad thing to analyse one self.Knowing yourself is essential to
find wisdom.
I did re-read the entire mail here, and most of it really should not be
criticised
at all.The posting was not directed at me,but it is quit clear that nobody
here
reacted on it.
Nobody tought it was nessecary to copulate with it, or trow poop at it
right?

When i read it, to be honest,and to adress your points of view expressed
here,
i see no need to ridicule you, or to call in the cheerleaders
either,.......it ain't very sad, your story,nor does it appears to be
filosophical.Most of the problems you talk about here are simply life's
difficulties,nothing else.
They are not attached to one individual solely.
The social skills you keep reffering to?, some whitparts in these posting
snaps?, you think too much of it ,kiddo,life itself nor the social skills
you project here, or wich are projected as absent in the path you'r on
right now, will make the lights burn, or produce a book.
Life itself is not all that "Pompous", or as we say in Belgium and
Holland,life
itself is not all that " hoogdravend",as we wished it to be.Forget the
playing
part,you'r way passed puberty,forget mom and dad,as you cannot rely on them
when you grow up.Forget the the winig part," i do not eat", or" i damage
myself", .............leave it behind or it will consume you.
You need to be a caracter on your own. Work for yourself.Complaining
is useless.It does not work.

But is all the above that you wrote decent?, yes off course it is,so why
would i call you a nerd?.But i can also see that you are under a lot of
pressure to start talking about filosophy or Pirsig,or related
material,because that's the
purpose of this list right?,.....What is holding you back? i'm not.Nobody is
exept yourself.

I did doubt it for some time weather or not i would comment on the next
snip, but i will.

snip

(Yeah, I've occasionally been one of the cool guys, too. Still am. But I
don't know much about what to do with that. It looks like I probably should
be one of the guys who makes things for people who actually need them
because they have a life. If you were one of those laborers, would you
never feel envious? Maybe, if you wouldn't know how good the living feel.
But they can feel really good. And once you know that, you realize you're
on a space mission because even though you can understand what these
emotionally intelligent people have accomplished in life, you realize
that's not what your life is gonna be. And you search and search for a way
to change that, but you can't find any. And if you just keep searching too
long you start feeling like: "Now I'm not going to even achieve that nerdy
shit I could've made work had I just given up about life soon enough!")

comment.

The above explanation is the story of the kings "fool" or "nar" or in
 english
"jester"!!.    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jester

Nobody gets away with a life like that anymore.You will find some of them
still today in the big city's like Rome, or Amsterdam, trying to enchant
some tourists, or show them some magic with cardgames,or play the gitar
before the vatican(playing 'titanic')(pun intended), i mean,Jester's do not
get a pension,
they have no future or purpose..........
I did not use this explanation to make a fool of you, Tuukka,but either you
will play along with life's demands, or it will leave you behind.

Given all the above, and in the light of the controverse about Pirsig's
wherabouts and adress,and you last posting consideret i can say
that it is a certainty that tim rappl is a real Jester,a drugged and doped
one.
do not follow his lead, Tuuka,be a personality of your own.

Adrie

2016-12-04 12:25 GMT+01:00 <mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net>:

> David,
>
> nice. Now you're pretending it was your idea that I leave him alone.
> Nothing else to do than try to get inside someone else's skin? I can't even
> post a message on MD without someone trying to copulate with it... that
> must be why Pirsig doesn't do so either.
>
> Regards,
> Tuk
>
>
>
>
> Quoting david <dmbuchanan at hotmail.com>:
>
> I don't know what Robert Pirsig has been doing lately but normally  he
>> drinks coffee at his desk each morning while reading the news and  the
>> posts on this forum, among other things. If that's still true,  then he
>> knows your email address and he knows you'd like to be in  contact. But so
>> would many, many, many other people. And nobody is  capable of satisfying
>> that kind of demand. Nobody. And he's retired,  likes to meditate, and
>> otherwise keep to himself. Plus he's in his  80s. Please, don't take it
>> personally if I suggest that you let it  go and leave him alone. And I take
>> my own advice, by the way. I  could bother him but I don't. Out of respect
>> for his peace of mind  and expressed wishes. He's done talking about the
>> MOQ with fans.  That's all there is to it. True story. "I'm retired," he
>> said, "you  guys take it from here."
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Moq_Discuss <moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org> on behalf  of
>> mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net <mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 3, 2016 2:15 PM
>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>> Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric
>>
>> I haven't noticed that Tim would've posted Pirsig's street address on
>> LS. Even if he did, I'd feel uncomfortable writing Pirsig had I
>> obtained his address in such a way.
>>
>> At this point Pirsig, if in sufficient health, is perfectly capable of
>> figuring out who I am and what's my business. Meeting him would be an
>> honor and I wouldn't require a particular kind of a meeting. If he
>> anyway does not wish to contact me, why should I think any more of it?
>> A man of his age needn't think of work, that's for sure. There's more
>> to life, such as cooking sausages in the fireplace. That's what I'm
>> going to do next, anyway.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tuk
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