[MD] John Carl: Ignoramous or fraud?

[david]

________________________________
From: Moq_Discuss <moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org> on behalf of Adrie Kintziger <parser666 at gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, November 4, 2016 12:48 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Wait, who's the fraudulent Ignoramous?



John said to Adrie:

"So you agree with Auxier that Pirsig derived his MoQ entirely from Whitehead?  To tell you the truth, I don't mind at all, it's just a shock to find out after all these years."



dmb says:

John's approach is outrageously dishonest. It's slanderous bullshit from beginning to end. Not only is it a wild distortion to claim that you "agree with Auxier that Pirsig derived his MOQ entirely from Whitehead," it's simply not true that Auxier said anything like that. His claim was far more modest; there is zero chance that Pirsig didn't encounter Whitehead while he was in Chicago.


But what makes these slanderous, fake debate even worse, is that it's really, really stupid. John would have us believe that Pirsig "is perpetrating one of the most elaborate frauds ever known" if he ever had actually read Whitehead. As if Pirsig had kept his Whitehead reading a big secret and then passed off Whitehead's thinking as his own thinking. But if Pirsig was trying to hide a secret connection to Whitehead, why would he quote the man in both of his books?


If John were an honest person, he'd admit defeat when this simple evidence is presented and if were a moral person he'd apologize for making such ugly and baseless accusations. Let's ask Randy Auxier if there is a zero percent chance of that.


Who wants to talk with a person who admits no such thing and apologizes for nothing - but instead doubles down in this bullshit? Not me.


Disgusting.



Randall Auxier wrote to John:

Zero. Chicago wasn't analytical at that time, and McKeon despised analytical philosophy. That day and age at U Chicago was 100% process philosophy, both in the Phil. dept and in every committee, including the Divinity School. The list of process-professors is endless. Zero.



John wrote to Auxier:

There are some pertinent biographical facts you're ignoring, Randy. You're thinking "he'd have to be crazy to be in Chicago and not have heard of Whitehead"  What you're forgetting is that he was crazy, and got so crazy he had to be locked up and given electroshock therapy where he had to reconstruct his earlier work by looking at notes he'd kept.    I offer a few pertinent comments from Pirsig, to illustrate my point that he wasn't much of a philosophy student. So Professor, are you still sure there is a ZERO chance that Pirsig didn't understand or read Whitehead?  If he did, then he's perpetrating one of the most elaborate frauds I've ever known.



Auxier's reply:

Zero. You don't understand what actually happens in graduate seminars in philosophy, such as McKeon's. I have spent a lifetime both doing this and listening to it. You don't understand how students talk on their way into and out of class, or what they discuss on the days between. The entire heady scene of graduate school, which Pirsig describes quite nicely in Zen, includes all kinds of things that won't show up in books and letters. I assure you, he knew and heard about and probably read Whitehead while at Chicago. If his memory was wiped out, that is hardly evidence against what I'm saying. It helps my case. He relieved these ideas from the recesses of a damaged cerebral cortex. Nothing unusual about that.

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