[MD] Annotations to LC

[David Harding]

Hi Horse,

I have also wished for this feature. There are other services which offer
this.  Ever thought of a move of MD?

On Nov. 16, 2016 at 1:12 pm, Horse <horse at darkstar.uk.net> wrote:

What a shame we haven't got a 'Like' button as per Facebook.

Horse

On 15/11/2016 23:54, david wrote:
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Moq_Discuss <moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org> on behalf of
Tuukka Virtaperko <mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 6:30 AM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Annotations to LC
>
> Tukka said"
>
> According to Pirsig, the MOQ is logically consistent. This meanshttp://
billmoyers.com/story/farewell-america/result in an inconsistency,
> since if A precedes B then B doesn't precede A.
>
>
> dmb says:
>
> You think you've discovered a logical inconsistency here and the rest of
your heinous critique is predicated on that starting point. But that's
where you go wrong; right from that starting point. The claims of
materialism cannot be reconciled with the claims of idealism are mutually
exclusive so that you can only have one or the other but that is only true
WITHIN the SOM framework on which they are both based. The MOQ begins by
rejecting that framework, by rejecting SOM and the theory of truth that it
entails. In the MOQ, as I've already explained, materialism and idealism
are both wrong because of premise they share is wrong. Neither one of them
is right because mind and matter are just concepts not the starting point
of reality. The mistake that they both make is to treat these concepts as
if they were the ontological structure of reality. That is a conceptual
error (reification) and the MOQ rejects it. In the MOQ, mind and matter are
conceptual categories that are useful f
> or thinking about experience and the MOQ can include both of them without
contradiction.
>
> Also, as I've already explained, the MOQ subscribes to the Pragmatic
theory of truth and under that theory truth is provisional rather than
eternal and truth is plural rather than singular. The art gallery analogy,
wherein many visions and many versions of the truth can exist side by side
even though they might make very different claims, is a pretty good picture
of this kind of Pragmatic pluralism.
>
> You're putting way too much way emphasis on the logic and way too little
emphasis on understanding the concepts involved. Logical rigor is not going
to help anyone who is operating with a series of misconceptions.
>
>
>
>
> Tuukka asked:
>
> Aren't these Kant's things noumena, not objective patterns? ...I don't
understand what would make noumena objective.
>
>
>
> dmb says:
>
> Yes, I know. It seems quite clear to me that you don't understand the
philosophical concepts involved. That's what I've been saying. Short
answer, the noumenal realm is "objective" because it is held to be reality
as it really is (reality in itself) regardless of anyone's opinion or
anyone's perception. That's what Pragmatism and the MOQ reject, the idea
that reality exists apart from anyone's perception or interpretation. In
the MOQ, so-called material reality is a concept invented by humans for
human purposes and it has everything to do with our perceptions and
opinions. It is a product of thought, not the pre-existing reality that
allows us to think.
>
> Logic is a great tool for checking the validity of arguments and claims
but you ought to put that tool down for a while and take some time to
familiarize yourself with the concepts first. When that's sorted out, then
maybe logic would be useful in sorting out the relations between the
concepts. Until then, you're just swinging your fists in the dark, so to
speak.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> Robert M. Pirsig's MoQ deals with the fundamentals of existence and
provides a more coherent system for understanding reality than our current
paradigms allow
>
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-- 


"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments
that take our breath away."
— Bob Moorehead



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