[MD] Rhetoric

Sun Jan 1 13:02:36 PST 2017

Hello , David,All,....
Yes, all so true, one of the themes in the core of the moq was exactly to
state that there are no things in themselves.
I do not see any importance in this
ctmu, or catmeowtheory,as it contains nothing but templates without
meaning.Like the saying here,"this brings Jan splinter thrue the
winter",where 'this' is left undefined.It only sounds good
fonetically,turns around easily
in the beak of the duck, but it ain't "ducks".

The last three weeks were very strange for me.My operation was re-
scheduled to this coming thursday, wich give us the change to go to the
inland of Turkey,to sell some parcels of land my wife still owned,as we
have no use for them, and they are subject to taxes.So she sold two pieces
for a very nice price, and we got payed before we left, cash!,that was a
nice
christmas present for ourselves.It was very cold there,and i caught the flu,
regardless of the fact that i was vaccinated 2 times.
So i'm at the max of the feverscale,pumped to the max with antibiotics just
days before the operation.I need to be free of fever by thursday.

Happy new year anyway, for anyone on the list, But Pirsig himself,his family
and Dr Mc Watt also included.(Obviously).

Baldwin for president!

2017-01-01 14:53 GMT+01:00 Tuukka Virtaperko <mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net>:

> The brain is not a muscle, Dave. If you're wrong, that's it.
>
> Tuk
>
>
>
>
>
> On 01-Jan-17 2:33, david wrote:
>
>> Howdy, Adrie, MOQers all:
>>
>> I don't know about Chris Langan's CTMU but Tuukka's criticism is not
>> correct.
>>
>> The MOQ does not include anything like Kant's noumenal reality or
>> "things-in-themselves" and the MOQ holds that phenomenal reality is the only
>> reality we can know. The phenomenal reality is NOT romantic quality. When
>> Pirsig refers to Dynamic Quality as "direct everyday experience," "the
>> primary empirical reality," or quotes William James referring to "the
>> immediate flux of reality," and "pure experience" he is talking about
>> phenomenal reality as such.
>>
>> Tuukka's claims to have improved the MOQ are quite preposterous.
>> Obviously, there's no way to "improve" the MOQ or create an alternative
>> without understanding it first.
>>
>> Buyer beware.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Moq_Discuss <moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org> on behalf of
>> Adrie Kintziger <parser666 at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2016 6:43 AM
>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>> Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric
>>
>> I think its good to read these materials.But things on wiki's are not
>> always what they seem.Some are very deceptive.
>> In fact, what this author is presenting here is actually nothing more
>> than a
>> collection of derivatives from Wittgensteins work on logic.It is spiced
>> and
>> salted with some previously known paradoxes in a new disguise.
>> The best way of putting it  ,in my opinion,is to regard it as a new
>> attempt
>> to launch the Tractatus-logico etc,....explained with the terminology of a
>> computerprogrammer, or a very strong logical thinker.And a very
>> intelligent
>> thinker,...clearly,this however does not prove him right in any way or
>> field.
>>
>> I don't think it will generate clarifications on reality itself,or add new
>> insights;
>> it is kinda developed to work as an upide down gearbox,not shifting up,
>> but
>> in fact , shifting down further, in a halted car.
>>
>> I wished you would not take this as critisism, because it is'nt.You should
>> explore these things, they are less boring than Wittgenstein,and he was
>> not
>> all that clever also.
>>
>> the only part of critics i have is about your statement, "competitor to
>> the
>> moq and amoq", There is no competion,connection,or game to win.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2016-12-31 8:52 GMT+01:00 Tuukka Virtaperko <mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net>:
>>
>> Chris Langan, developer of the CTMU, which is a competitor to the MOQ and
>>> AMOQ, does not understand the MOQ.
>>>
>>> Citing http://ctmucommunity.org/wiki/Cognitive-Theoretic_Model_of_t
>>> he_Universe
>>>
>>> ***
>>>
>>> On the other hand, mind acts as a filter: that which does not conform to
>>> mental categories is irrelevant to perception, and therefore not real.
>>> Langan here breaks with Kant, who posited a noumenal reality of
>>> "things-in-themselves", independent of the phenomenal reality we
>>> perceive.
>>> Discarding this "Kantian fallacy", Langan rejects noumena as oxymoronic
>>> "inconceivable concepts"[21] and holds that phenomenal reality, as the
>>> only
>>> reality we can know, is the only reality there is.
>>>
>>> ***
>>>
>>> This means Langan's understanding of philosophy is at the level of ZAMM.
>>> It is not at the level of LILA. The phenomenal reality is romantic
>>> quality.
>>> Langan is oblivious to Dynamic Quality.
>>>
>>> Tuk
>>>
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