[MD] Rhetoric

[ngriffis]

Dan, Ron, and All,

Ron, thank you for your responses. Your perspective of gumption traps
certainly helps to apply MOQ wisdom to everyday life and the perennial
problems that come up. ZMM anchored "Caring" very well in my brain as the
frame of mind with which to meet Life, but I had forgotten about gumption
traps. I believe, Caring is part of the great Yes that philosophers speak
of. It runs throughout the perennial guidelines toward Quality. Now that I
think back, there was the gumption trap of not caring, the trap of being
tired, the trap of being frustrated, and the trap of working in the wrong
position. 
	Would you say that Persig was also describing a gumption trap as the
narrowness of mind that could not perceive a piece of a beer can as a BMW
handlebar shim? 
	Also, it is in my memory that Persig said that the list of gumption
traps was too long to enumerate. Where does that lead in the quest to apply
the idea of Quality to living? I suppose it presents us with the step of
being mindful to ask ourselves: What are the Gumption Traps associated with
the numerous situations we face during our lives...That is a lot of GTs. How
about an encyclopedia of Gumption Traps, put together in the tradition of
the Lila Squad?

	Ron, you mentioned Love of Wisdom, Seeking the Truth. Yes, that
seems to be the right path alright. Would you talk about some of the logic
traps you have found to be of most use to you? Is there a book on logic
traps that you found especially helpful? How did you teach yourself the
awareness to recognize those specific traps before you spoke or acted
illogically?

Finally, For Dan:
Thank you also for your response. I wish I had some wisdom for you,
knowledge to come to a new dynamic quality after losing a loved one. We are
stuck with static clichés of condolences, preparing and delivering meals,
taking part in the ancient ceremonies that deal with the loss of a loved
one. I believe that you are right...this ranks right at the top of man's
perennial problems. 
	No, there are no classes for dealing with the anger and depression
that come with losing someone. Maybe, bystanders fall into one of the
gumption traps...trying to help someone else who is hurting from this loss.
Most times, it just doesn't get it. What I have come across is the knowledge
of others who have experienced that the minutes can finally become an hour
and the hour, if you are fortunate, can become a day. 

Dolphin


-----Original Message-----
From: X Acto [mailto:xacto at rocketmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January, 4, 2017 11:25 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric



Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 3, 2017, at 6:03 PM, ngriffis <ngriffis at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> 
> It is ironic that this chat room is based on the philosophy of 
> quality, as defined by Persig.
> 
>    Please, take a step away and let us talk about how someone, who 
> believes in MOQ, applies these same principles to their lives. I once 
> asked this board how they used the principals in their daily challenge 
> to live their life qualitatively. You guys were off and running onto 
> something else, but now I think it a good time to ask the question 
> again. How do the participants of this board use what they learned 
> from Persig to make their lives better?
> 
>    I have my faults. Everyone does. We are humans, but Persig pointed 
> out a guide to a better way. I think that is why all of us are here 
> talking about Zen and Art of MM, and Lila. He brought the idea of 
> Quality to our attention. But, Quality and Persig's message is useless 
> if we do not utilize the principles introduced.
> 
>    Here is another question for the circle. Where in ZMM does it speak 
> to how to apply and seek Quality in one's life? What does it say about 
> solving some of the basic and perennial human problems that we get 
> caught in over and over again?
> 
> Dolphin,
In ZMM, if you remember the passages about gumption traps and how the shop
mechanics did a really poor job "fixing"
Robert Pirsigs motorcycle because they didn't care about what they were
doing, Then part of your inquiry has already been answered.
Personally
I do not "believe" in "the MOQ", I think it's an inaccuracy to approach RMPs
work in that fashion. What I have gained from Robert Pirsigs work and from
this community of contributors is the love of critical thinking.

I apply the skills I've learned everyday in my environment and this has
improved my life greatly. I am aware of traditional logic traps and how to
recognize and avoid them.

But basically Bob instilled in me a love for wisdom.

As for Tuk, he was here with an agenda.
He wields the tools of philosophy as a weapon. Rather carelessly I might
add.

-Ron

.