[MD] The need for quality
daneglover at gmail.com
Thu Sep 28 20:16:17 PDT 2017
Yes that significance was brought up in early Lila Squad discussions:
I asked Pirsig about it [Lila] shortly after publication and he said it was
like “lilac,” and that, “it was the unsubtlety of the lilac odour and the
hardiness of the bush that helped suggest her name to me.”
I did know about the lila of Hindu mythology and have
attended Ram Lila celebrations in India, but I never
consciously connected it with the Lila of the book. [Lila's Child]
Again, in light of this, I still think Robert Pirsig used the
lowercase lila to indicate the biological level in the MOQ and how
Lila is representational of that, and not of the lila of Hindu
mythology. He pretty much says so in Lila's Child.
On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 12:44 AM, WES STEWART <wesstt at shaw.ca> wrote:
> Hello Dan;
> There is some significance to how Pirsig wrote, " —call her lila—who is immortal, who inhabits Lila for a while and then moves on."
> Notice the lower case "L" ("l"), then switches to the upper case "L". No proof reader would have allowed it, especially after several re-writes.
> That "lila" was the Hindu reality. Start with lower case then go to uppercase all in one sentence?
> Google Hindu lila, the majority of it is lower case, Dan.
> Perf ection is a SYSTEM that is undergoing continuous improvement, nothing is ever born into a supreme end state. Nothing is ever born or can ever been born into a supreme end state,even an entity such as li-la, or lila.
> Not even Jiro...
> From: "Dan Glover" <daneglover at gmail.com>
> To: "moq discuss" <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2017 1:08:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [MD] The need for quality
> Wes, all,
> Right. The immortal lila is biological. Phaedrus recalls seeing Lila
> before only not Lila the single private person. What he remembers
> seeing is the lila who inhabits Lila for a while and then moves on.
> Biological cells are billions of years old while Lila has only been
> alive a short while. In comparison, yes, lila is immortal. I would
> hesitate to call that perfection, however, as you yourself say the
> eternal is continuously undergoing improvement. If lila is absolute
> perfection, then no improvement is possible.
> And yes, I believe Robert Pirsig said that he was aware of the li-la
> in Hindu philosophy but that is not why he named the character Lila.
> Thank you.
> On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 10:45 PM, WES STEWART <wesstt at shaw.ca> wrote:
>> Thanks for the response Dan;
>> ...and yes the Boat, and the Plastic Baby was Inorganic, Lila the Biological, Rigel- Social and Pirsig the Intellectual.
>> We can never be entirely certain of anything, however Lila is a a well known and important term in Hindu philosophy. Robert Pirsig attended Banaras Hindu University in India, to study Eastern philosophy and culture.
>> This is from Lila Chapter 1.
>> "There is Lila, this single private person who slept beside him now, who was born and now lived and tossed in her dreams and will soon enough die and then there is someone else—call her lila—who is immortal, who inhabits Lila for a while and then moves on. The sleeping Lila he had just met tonight. But the waking Lila, who never sleeps, had been watching him and he had been watching her for a long time. "
>> My interpretation of that, and it could be wrong, quality was reality itself, as he writes about his MOQ. It appears he also believes that the "quality that is our reality is an entity because he feels it had been watching him, and he had been watching her for a long time.
>> Immortal is an absolute, it is not subjective, it is a term that is well defined, however as human beings we are like how Plato describes. We are chained in a cave, with a bit of light entering, we are facing the walls and we see only shadows.
>> The entity Lila that Pirsig had been watching for a long time, was perfection. Lila the eternal, is a system that is undergoing continuous improvement, in all four areas of MOQ. Same as Jiro but only in one area; sushi..
>> From: "Dan Glover" <daneglover at gmail.com>
>> To: "moq discuss" <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 12:55:10 AM
>> Subject: Re: [MD] The need for quality
>> Wes, all,
>> I believe when asked Robert Pirsig said how the name Lila came from
>> the distinct odor of the lilac bush and not from the Sanskrit word. I
>> am fairly certain the MOQ does not subscribe to any notion of absolute
>> reality (God, Creator) for that would connote an objective reality we
>> all agree upon, the antithesis of the notion of Quality.
>> In ZMM, Pirsig writes:
>> "Two weeks after the vacation was over, one evening after work, I
>> removed the carburetor to see what was wrong but still couldn’t find
>> anything. To clean off the grease before replacing it, I turned the
>> stopcock on the tank for a little gas. Nothing came out. The tank was
>> out of gas. I couldn’t believe it. I can still hardly believe it."
>> So he did not tear the whole motorcycle apart. I wouldn't mind knowing
>> where you got the part about Chris saying so in front of an audience
>> if you could forward that.
>> Now, so far as the character Lila goes, 'she' was Robert Pirsig. So
>> was Rigel. And Phaedrus. And the boat. The notion behind the
>> development of the characters in the novel Lila had to do with
>> explicating the four levels of the MOQ: the boat, inorganic, Lila,
>> biological, Rigel, social, Phaedrus, intellectual.
>> That said, there is no divine absolute perfection in the MOQ. That
>> would presuppose the elimination of betterness. So to pursue such an
>> entity would appear to be only done in ignorance, which I am fairly
>> sure was not what Jiro or Pirsig were doing.
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