[MD] What is the opposite of Quality?

[Magnus Berg]

Hi Bruce

Yes, I saw slide 9 and that's why I objected to chaos being below the levels. I 
know it's tempting to put chaos there, but as I said, higher levels are supposed 
to me more dynamic, and dynamic is the opposite of static and has much more in 
common with chaos than static has. Chaos is unpatterned, just like DQ. To any 
one level, the level above it looks like chaos. Nothing makes sense, events are 
happening that shouldn't be happening. Birds are flying in the air instead of 
falling down as the inorganic law of gravity dictates. That's chaos for the 
inorganic level.

In short, chaos is much closer to DQ than what your slide 9 shows.

On another note, I would draw the levels more like a tree, not as one track 
leading to only one goal. There are not just one evolutionary path, there are 
countless.

	Magnus




On 2010-01-05 20:59, Bruce Underwood wrote:
> Hello Magnus,
>
> As I see it, Chaos is not a level nor is Quality. Levels represent a place in time on the evolutionary scale and current status of Static patterns of quality.  Each level represents a ratchet point that attempts to protect itself and it's achievements.  Quality's goal is to organize the best system possible, the ultimate static pattern.  The ultimate destruction of all static patterns is total chaos... no static patterns.  Check out slide 9, "Lila Train of Knowledge".
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bruce
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 18:36:37 +0100
>> From: McMagnus at home.se
>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>> Subject: Re: [MD] What is the opposite of Quality?
>>
>> Hi Bruce
>>
>> Nice presentation, I see you put a lot of effort into it. I have two main
>> objections though.
>>
>> * Quality is supposed to be all of reality. If Quality had an opposite, the
>> reality it was trying to encompass has to be larger than Quality. That would
>> mean it had failed to encompass all of reality. I.e. Quality doesn't have an
>> opposite.
>>
>> * You put chaos below the inorganic level, but lower levels are supposed to be
>> more static, whereas chaos isn't static at all. I guess you didn't intend chaos
>> to be a new level, but then you need to describe what it is, and as I said
>> above, it can't be the opposite of Quality.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Magnus
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2010-01-05 17:04, Bruce Underwood wrote:
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> I have attached a link to a powerpoint that contain graphical representations of how I see MoQ. This ppt file contains 22 slides from many of my thoughts and ideas and is best viewed in presentation mode.
>>>
>>> The initial question is what is the opposite of Quality? After reading Lila, I felt like something was missing from my mental image. For me, it was the understanding of what the opposite of Quality is. It dawned on me that Quality is really organization. Quality is the evolution of organization; the driving force to organize the best systems of "energy". The opposite of organization is disorganization or chaos. This reminded me of the second law of thermodynamics: The universal law of increasing entropy, stating that every system left to its own devices always tends to move from order to disorder. The initial slides depict this in a few ways: Yin/Yang, tug-of war, and Quality pulling against the gravity of chaos.
>>>
>>> If there is an opposite side to Quality and that being chaos, is there a dynamic chaos or is it static and constant?
>>>
>>> Perhaps this is my feeble attempt to philosophize and not get too bogged down into "philosophology",but regardless putting this in a visual form helped me gather my thoughs.
>>>
>>> http://www.thinnerself.com/files/MoQ/lila-6a.ppt
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
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