[MD] What is the oppostite of Quality?

[Bruce Underwood]

Hello All, I really appreciate your responses on this... it certainly feeds my mind...

In my reference to chaos, it is not concerning a branch of science, but a simple concept of organization breaking down into a disorganized state. www.dictionary.com:
       1. a state of utter confusion or disorder; a total lack of organization or order.


 It appears to me that there are two systems at work and perhaps that is Dynamic Quality creating Dynamic Chaos or destruction.  However, there is "something" that causes things to move from a state of disorder to order that does not alighn with the 2nd law of thermodynmics and that to me is Quality.  I see it that anything that is organized into patterns did that out of Dynamic Quality and is Quality itself.  If it is not organized it is in a state of chaos.  However, what is it that moves things from a state of organization back to chaos?  Is that Quality?  If so, then it appears that Quality is both Dynamic Quality and Dynamic Chaos...

Perhaps I put to much emphasis on the 2nd law of thermodynmics, but Pirsig does reference this in Lila. Things left alone will break down from an organized state to a state of disorganization. (need to find it)

Thanks,

Bruce 


[Dan]
> chaos
>
> A new branch of science that deals with systems whose evolution
> depends very sensitively upon the initial conditions. Turbulent flows
> of fluids (such as white water in a river) and the prediction of the
> weather are two areas where chaos theory has been applied with some
> success. (www.dictionary.com)
>
> I think it is pretty clear that this is not what Robert Pirsig means
> by Dynamic Quality. I recall that I once asked him about whether it
> was wise to say Dynamic Quality is always positive. He said (and I
> paraphrase) perhaps not, that it might be better to say it's not this,
> not that. It is in LILA'S CHILD toward the end.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Krimel  wrote:
>>> [Krimel]
>>> What a depressing quote. Chaos is not always a destructive force in fact
>>> it is the creative power of the universe. Order is a subset of chaos. If
>>> this was a fairly new idea when Pirsig wrote Lila is was not 10 years
>>> later. He really should know better.
>>
>> [Steve]
>> If you are calling chaos the creative power of the universe and order
>> a subject of chaos, it sounds like what you are calling chaos Pirsig
>> calls Quality.
>>
>> [Krimel]
>> Yes, and I have been doing so consistently for years now.
>>
>> Just look at the quote Andre provided:
>>
>> 'Dynamic Quality and chaos are both patternless, and so it would seem they
>> have a lot in common, particularly the fact that you can't say anything
>> about them without getting into static patterns."
>>
>> [Krimel]
>> Yes, yes, you are almost there Bob. It is like the passage in Lila where you
>> say that the MoQ could almost be thought of as a Metaphysics of Randomness.
>>
>> [Unfortunately the quote continues...]
>> "But if you do, you can say that Dynamic Quality is good and precedes static
>> improvement. It is the source of experience. Chaos, by contrast is the
>> condition of total destruction. You can't call it either good or bad.
>> It is not the source of anything'."
>>
>> [Krimel]
>> This just reduces DQ to anything that is "good" not all DQ is good and DQ
>> does not always precede static improvement. Conversely chaos does not always
>> produce destruction. Selection of lottery tickets is a chaotic process and
>> it often produces enormous good for someone. Chaos only looks destructive
>> because disordered states are much more likely than ordered states.
>>
>> Chaos is a creative force in the universe because it means that nothing is
>> ever rigid and fixed and lawful. Everything is changing chaotically and
>> there is always room of "oops" and "aha". The world is not a Newtonian
>> billiard table, an idealized plane and hypothetical spheres. The world is a
>> pool hall with erratic lighting, free flowing alcohol and sexual tension.
>> What determines whether or not the eight ball lands in the side pocket is,
>> more often than not, the whims of Bacchus and Eros not the Laws of geometry
>> and physics.
>>
>>
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