[MD] Metaphysics

[markhsmit]

Hi Marsha,
Yes, analogies or systems all the way down and up.  Which is of course
an analogy in itself.  You speak of the liberty of belief in one thing or
another.  I do not believe that exists.  Can one force him/herself to
believe in something.  Belief exists because it feels right, not because it
is convenient.  If a belief in God is not intellectual, then no belief is.  It is 
easy to confuse complexity for intellect, but it is all the same, to me at
least.

Cheers,
Mark
On Jan 11, 2010, at 12:04:59 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
From:   MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
Subject:    Re: [MD] Metaphysics
Date:   January 11, 2010 12:04:59 AM PST
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org

On Jan 11, 2010, at 12:59 AM, markhsmit wrote:



Hi Mark,

Very interesting post. It kind of has the ring of analogues all the way
down. I do like that, but in my understanding, conventionally, or statically
speaking, some patterns are conventionally more useful than others. 
This would make the levels more important. Should I be a "believer" in
God because it's a social imperative? If it's to avoid being burned at the 
stake, it might be a smart idea to state that one believes in God, but for
any intellectual reason, then I don't think so. 


Marsha




> Bodvar to virtually all of us:
> 
> Yes, you bet, metaphysics in the the true MOQ sense is reality, that's
> the very point!

> Hello Bodvar and All:
> When I read this, something dawned on me but couldn?t give it
> expression until I lay, quietly on my electric blanket (it is fucking
> freezing here!).
> Then it came to me...the passage in ZMM (I think) where Phaedrus has a
> conversation with a priest and they are talking about the liturgy, the
> most sacred part: when the wine changes into blood, and the bread
> changes into the body of Christ. Phaedrus asks along the lines of;
> (sorry I do not have a copy of ZMM with me) yes, but this is
> symbolically..yeS??. No! says the priest, this is real. At that
> moment, the wine and bread change into the actual blood and body of
> Jesus Christ!
> Christians all over the world actually and factually believe that this
> is indeed the case. And, further more, the Bible is of course seen,
> not as a book full of stories ( if I may take the liberty, as a book
> full of fingers pointing to the moon!!) but as the actual word of God.

> [Mark]: In response to Andre.
> So Andre, you believe that it is not the word of God. Let me remind
> you that that is a belief too, no more or less than to believe it is.
> However, your posts sounds rather righteous, as if you believe
> that your belief is correct. How did you get to this higher level?
> How is it that your belief somehow is more right than, say, a
> Christian's? In fact your belief is so blind, that you think that
> it is somehow outside the system of beliefs, somehow the right way to
> believe. Once you realize the relative nature of beliefs,
> that is, that they are just opinions, you may see a little more.
> So, yes, the wine is the blood of Christ to those that believe it,
> and it is not to those who believe otherwise. There is
> no right or wrong, unless you believe you are God. But of course if
> your system of belief is that there isn't one, then you are something
> else that is all knowing, or not. There is a God and there isn't a
> God, both are correct. No need to take sides.
> 
> Cheers,
> Mark


_______________________________________________________________________

Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars... 







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