[MD] New Model Army, Mystic(DQ) Experience, and Religion (SQ) as Power

[ian glendinning]

Ant, I might also say, that invoking issues with religious extremists
is the rhetorical problem with unscrupulous philosophers too. Myths
and strawmen.

The problem is not so much religion, as being unscrupulous.

Interestingly you go on to say exactly the same message as Rand ...
wherever you get your values from, don't accept them as handed down
(from the Vatican or wherever) without examining them and making them
your own.

(Strange when I started a thread some months ago on better
alternatives to "straight" popular democracy ... where the "wrong"
people seem to end up in power ... no-one seemed interested.)

Ian

On 8/3/06, Ant McWatt <antmcwatt at hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Ant McWatt stated August 2nd:
>
> To cut to the chase, I think the issue of religion (and especially the
> exploitation of Fundamentalist Christians by neo-cons) is just one of those
> smokescreens often used by unscrupulous politicians to ensure their
> materially comfortable lifestyle continues.  The "War on Terror" is another
> myth designed to scare the US and UK population into being more submissive
> and pliable for the same end.  More detail for these points is provided by
> the "Power of Nightmares" TV documentary that Khaled and Arlo recently
> highlighted; the entire scripts for the documentary being at:
>
> http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares
>
> Finally, I still think that most everyday people calling themselves
> Christians or Muslims are sincere about their beliefs but, to return to a
> point I made a couple of days ago, if you rely on the static baggage of
> someone else (whether that's a parent or the Catholic Church) when dealing
> with the Divine (rather than approach it directly), you're going to leave
> yourself open to political and financial exploitation.  This type of
> exploitation is also why writers such as Mark Twain implied that anyone who
> _wants_ to hold high office should be carefully scrutinised for their
> motivations in doing so!
>
> Steve H commented to Ant August 2nd:
>
> And your solution is to get rid of all [institutionalised] religion?  I see
> the problem
> being the vacuum of leadership at the top.  In other posts I have
> shown my disgust with President Bush, I believe he and his cronies are
> more of a problem than all of organized religion.  It is them who
> encourage the continued ignorance of the population and feed on the
> population's lust for instant gratification.
>
> Ant McWatt comments:
>
> Steve,
>
> I think Bush and his cronies are happy to use organised religion in as far
> as it secures them power.  So yes, I agree with you in that such politicians
> are more of a problem than organized religion.  As such, my solution is not
> to get rid of all institutionalised religion but to change the system/s that
> gives power to dubious politicians such as those presently "leading" the US
> and the UK.
>
> Regarding institutionalised religion, I was simply saying that if you are
> trusting your spiritual life to other people (as part of an established
> sect), you have to be that more careful about what beliefs you are exactly
> accepting and how the social organizations underlying these beliefs are
> being controlled and influenced.  I suppose there is an element of trust
> there with church authorities analogous with trusting the mass media etc
> that a country I have never visited on the TV news _really_ exists or that
> the '69 moon landings _really_ did happen.  Most people just can be bothered
> or lack the time to check up on such things properly.
>
> Moreover, if I am a mystic then I just need to be aware of the moral issues
> I come across on my individual path ("to enlightenment") while if I become a
> member of the Catholic Church, for instance, then what the priest says in
> his weekly sermon or what the financial dealings of the Vatican City are or
> what the Pope's public comments on AIDS or women or institutionalised child
> abuse also then become my concern and, as a member of that Church, my
> responsibility.  Personally, it's not the kind of responsibility I'd like to
> be burdened with.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Anthony.
>
>
> .
>
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