[MD] New Model Army, Mystic(DQ) Experience, and Religion (SQ) as Power

[Case]

[gav]
  i agree that the intelligence is not separate; it is however supernatural,
in the sense that it is both within, contains and is beyond the natural
(sensual) world. the Tao is manifest in the life and relations of nature,
but the Tao is also an implicit logic or intelligence that gives rise to
nature. in which sense it is *super*natural:  'Super' in that it is above
and beyond the manifest natural world.

[Case]
My reasons for not liking 'supernatural' are similar to dmb's for not liking
faith. But where I see faith in everyday life in the form of trust, belief
and confidence, I see the supernatural on the SciFi channel. It is of course
simply a personal preference in terminology but if you believe in infinite
oneness how can something be outside of that?

[gav]
the Tao is the  implicate order that becomes explicate in an infinite
cascade of quality events in manifest reality.

[Case]
I like your use of the Tao except insofar as you give it intelligence. It is
not a thing. It is The Way. It is the path of harmony. It resonates within
us. The perception of harmony comes from within. Red resides on retinas not
apples. We are each after all manifestations of the Tao evolving. But I see
no 'intelligence' implied, nor a promise of bliss; only a strategy for
seeking the Way.

"Who finds union of mind and heart will reach immortality. Who masters his
passions and turns them to deeds of kindness, is greater than a King."
Lao Tzu


[gav]
i guess i want to reinforce the importance of common ground here. i don't
want to alienate anyone who has decided to use a deity as a touchstone for
their own quality and development; everything is a metaphor anyway....it's
just about the quality of the metaphors. there are many high quality
religious metaphors as well as scientific ones...and if you are wary of the
theists wait till the logical positivists hit!!

[Case]
Exactly, Metaphor is who we are. It is not so much about grading them as
seeing what they point toward. No blind man can 'see' an elephant with a
single touch. But for me the most powerful, are the ones that show me the
most. My favorite is broccoli.