[MD] New Model Army, Mystic(DQ) Experience, and Religion (SQ) as Power

[david buchanan]

Arlo said to Steve:
What you are pointing out (and I agree) is the manipulation of religious 
power structures by political power structures, or better said, the 
manipulation of religious rhetoric to tie specific "religious salvation" for 
the masses into their support of social-political power of governments, 
corporations, economic interests, dictatorial interests, etc. This is 
precisely what CAN (and DOES) occur when "religion" is more about the static 
patterns of its particular myths and abandons any dynamic component. People 
conflate "supporting the church" with "being religious". One need only to 
look at US and World headlines from any news source to see this.

dmb says:
That's pretty much how I see it. The conflicts between nations and peoples 
wouldn't just disappear if we were somehow able to remove the religious 
component, but I think it would be a lot less nasty and lethal. What I'm 
seeing in the news headlines are a bunch partisans who talk about their 
enemies in terms of good and evil. There is a lot of demonizaton on all 
sides so that the enemy is less than human. Even the so-called diplomats 
will sit at the UN and describe the other side with a lot of overheated 
rhetoric. If we took out the whole God-is-on-my-side thing it would be far, 
far easier to resolve conflicts over land and oil and such. You know what, 
all three of the Abrahamic religions believe that they much be in control of 
the same little peice of real estate in order for their prophecies to be 
fulfilled? If memory serves, this spot is known as the Dome of the Rock.

John Stewart and friends did a hilarous send up recently. Three reporters, 
each one speaking from a different spot in the middle east and each 
representing the views of the locals, all pointed out how God had promised 
this land to THEIR people and not the others. The fake reporters acted like 
this was a big surprize, and when they realized that God had promised this 
same piece of land to three different people of three different religions, 
they started talking about God like he was some kind of three-timing ladies 
man. You had to be there, I guess. It was brilliant and hilarous. Anyway, 
that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. American evangelicals, for the 
most part, give unqualified supports to Israel's foreign policies because 
they believe that their temple must be re-bulit before Jesus can return. I 
kid you not. Tens of millions of adult Americans really believe this stuff. 
And when you think you are in a battle with cosmic evil, you pull out all 
the stops and fight like there's no tomorrow.

Anyway, to answer Gav's question, no. I was not molested by priests as a 
kid. As I recall, there simply came a point where religion stopped making 
sense, when I was around 12 years old. Before that, I was really into it. I 
found the whole rapture thing to be quite fascinating and entertained my 
friends with descriptions of the last days and all that. But then one day I 
asked my mom if she really, really believed that the Bible gave us all the 
answers. And I remember being so very disappointed when she said yes. That 
can't be true, I thought, and if it were true then things were gonna be 
really, really boring for the rest of my life. So anyway, its not that I was 
traumatized by this. It just started looking kinda stupid to me. Mostly, my 
concern on this topic simply comes from watching current events unfold. 
Reagan was elected when I was a freshman and I was attending a very 
conservative college where everyone was really psyched about that. I've been 
watching this movement for twenty five years - and not from a distance 
either. I also worked in talk radio during the Clinton years and saw this 
same movement in attack mode. And its gotten much, much worse under the 
currrent administration. Hear me now and believe me later. The United States 
is seriously flirting with fascism and theocracy. If we don't puts the 
brakes on this shit - and I mean soon - this experiment with democracy will 
have failed. I don't mean to be overly dramatic, but we Americans do live in 
a time when the President talks about nations in terms of good and evil, who 
has instituted a domestic spying program, suspended certain rights, mocked 
the Geneva Conventions, sent a decidedly undiplomatic hothead UN-hater to 
represent us at the world body, and sent this nation to war on false 
pretenses with a plan based on wishes and lies. A lot of people are 
convinced they stole the last two elections as well. I think these guys are 
just dripping with religiosity and contempt for demoncracy. I think they 
have no respect for human rights and they are profoundly anti-intellectual 
too. This is not a conspiracy theory, just a list of activities that anyone 
can read about in a newspaper. But these events, taken together, paint a 
pretty depressing picture of that long slide back to Victorianism, back to 
social level values.

Steve said:
I don't mind if theism is questioned, challenged, debated, but to me that 
sounded more like an attack or a call to arms.

Arlo replied:
It is a call to arms, against static power institutions that have turned 
spirituality into a device to secure their own power of others. Why 
shouldn't we rage against that machine? It is gross hypocrisy to give those 
seeking enlightenment the very metaphors designed for that purpose, and then 
blind them with the language of subservience and obedience to their social 
power. In this way, the very thing that is supposed to be liberating becomes 
ensnaring.

dmb says:
Exactly. Well said. That's what I was trying to say. Its sadly ironic that 
the myths and metaphors have become the dirt on the window instead of the 
window itself. Its even more sad and more ironic that we seem to have MOQers 
who would celebrate the dirt and condemn the windows.

Oooops. Gotta go. More later, hopefully.
dmb

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