[MD] Where have all the values gone?

[David M]

Hi Platt

see below.

> Seems you'd like to see the tax code changed to accomplish your desired
> social end of equality. That's "imposing" isn't it? Do I have a choice NOT
> to pay taxes?

DM: I see it as intellectual level control of the 3rd level. It is a call to
citizen values, yes it restrains individual shortsightedness for the sake
of sustaining the 3rd and 4th levels. I recommend a careful read of Roger
Scruton's The West and the Rest.

> Gain a majority to impose new taxes on the minority? Sounds to me like you
> support a social moral code against an intellectual code.

DM: What is intellectual about amassing wealth?

> I don't see that society is going down the drain because incomes aren't 
> more
> equal. If it's going down the drain it's because, as Pirsig says, the
> intellectual system we use says we live in a purposeless, meaningless
> universe where morals are culturally determined and relative, having no
> rational basis at all.

DM: Is it not anti-relativist to say that we have to limit our individual
inclinations for the sake of higher ends, i.e. sustaining the 3rd level
and enabling the 4th. New idea: Is the construction of political
machinery not a 4th level rather than 3rd level SQ type? Again see
Sruton.

> Vote to impose? Not me. Not without carefully considering the cost to
> individual freedom.

DM: The question here is not about imposing, but trying to promote
citizen values where we see our freedom asgrounded in the sort
of society we are making together.Your right leaning views are not well
thought out, again see Scruton for some education.

> Much of profit is reinvested in the business to buy new capital equipment
> and/or expand markets.

DM: Investments do not show up in profits, they go to the balance sheet
you know.


>
> DM:
>> Interest protects capital from inflation, why should
>> it?
>> Capital should run down over time like any other natural thing.
>> Who elsevotes for zero interest rates and no more dividends?
>
> Sorry, don't understand. Can you explain how interest protects capital 
> from
> inflation? And why capital ought to run down over time?

DM: You put $100 dollars in the bank for five years, they pay you interest
so that in five years time you can still buy the same amount of goods with 
your $500
plus interest. This is not necessary. You should be punished for making no 
use of it.
All other assets run down over time unless worked on. Interest is a peculiar 
idea.

>
> I agree. If the goverment is going to tax income, it should not withhold
> taxes from pay. Instead, once a year each worker would have to pay what he
> owes Uncle Sam. Then we'd really see a tax revolt, and be able to get rid 
> of
> all those wasteful government programs.
>
>
> Who am I to say? It's my money. I can say what I think ought to happen to 
> it
> while I'm alive. Who knows, I may will it all the charity. Why should
> anybody get handouts from anybody else as you propose with your scheme to
> make incomes more equal?

DM: Say what you like ypou'll be dead, do dead men get votes? Maybe your 
common
sense is making you screwy on this one.

>> DM: Fact is we are squeezing the profits out of business every day.
>> Fact is that's going tomake it implode as a system.
>
> Who is squeezing the profits out of business? The government?
> If so, we agree.

DM: And consumers, and eventually it will all crash in on us.

>
>> DM: Ever heard of being paid to work, it is quite different
>> from over charging to pay capital to be protected from inflation,
>> a very anti-dynamic business practise.
>
> Who pays someone to work? Somebody who has made a profit, that's who. 
> Unless
> my company makes a profit, I can't afford to hire anybody.

DM: Who makes the profit, owners or workers? Come on? But I
grant that some owners do some work,they should get paid for that.
Imagine there are no dividends or interest, everything else can carry on
as normal, apart from who is making the decisions.

> Taxes come from profits. Pay comes from profits.

DM: Profits are deducted from the pay and passed to shareholders
who do no work.

 More pay can only come from
> more profits.

DM: More tax can come from pay if profits are not drawn off first.

And if the globe was a peaceful place, full of people like you
> and me who wouldn't hurt a fly even though we know others are better off
> financially than us, then we could give up war and reduce what we spend 
> now
> on the police and military. Which is like the old adage, "If wishes were
> horses, beggars would ride." :-)

DM: Good point, but I wonder how much violence is by those armed to the 
teeth
and trying to maintain their wealth against free trade, history, talent, 
youth, etc.
Perhaps a little fair play and sharing would be a cheaper form of 
self-defence?