[MD] Sin Part 1

[Platt Holden]

> [Platt]
> Declare victory and let Al Quada rule Iraq? You must have a death wish.
> 
> [Case]
> We should declare victory and let Iraqis rule Iraq. I wish freedom and
> liberty of everyone.

[Platt]
If we cut and run, freedom and liberty is doomed in Iraq.

> [Platt]
> Prisoners of war are not given the capturing country's legal 
> protections. Even the international Geneva Convention doesn't apply to
> terrorists who dress as civilians and hide behind women's skirts. 
> 
> [Case]
> Prisoners of war are subject to international law as is a country that
> willfully deprives detainees of their rights without due process.

[Platt]
Terrorists are not subject to international law. The Geneva convention 
does not apply.

> [Platt]
> Terrorists forfeit any and all "rights."
> 
> [Case]
> So if the state calls you a terrorist you are willing to submit to the
> same treatment? Your rights should be forfeited on the basis of and
> accusation? 

[Platt]
If I'm caught with a bomb strapped to my waist, a machine gun in my 
hands and a towel covering my face, my rights are forfeited, yes.

> [Platt]
> Ever hear of sales tax? And fees?
> 
> [Case]
> Only free men participating in capitalism pay these. 

[Platt]
Pay or risk jail. You call that freedom?

>  [Platt]
> There are laws against vagrancy.
> 
> [Case]
> These laws have almost all been stricken from the books because they
> have rightly been declared unconstitutional.

[Platt]
That's a  supreme court decision I'm not familiar with.

> [Platt]
> "Threat of force." You got it!
> 
> [Case]
> What is your point here? The government can do a lot more that threaten
> to use force.

[Platt]
Not without threatening force, never overtly of course,  but always 
implied.

> [Platt]
> The worst ruling ever by the Supreme Court was to sanction the income
> tax. I'm with Arlo on endorsing the Fair Tax proposal.
> 
> [Case]
> This was an amendment to the constitution passed after the court ruled
> such taxes unconstitutional. I suspect it was passed because regular
> folk saw is as a way of shafting the wealthy.

[Platt]
Thanks for the historical correction. You're right --  takers shaft the 
makers. (I love the way you define the wealthy as "irregular" folk.) 
  
> [Platt]
> There's that word again, "force." Let's be sure to keep that in mind
> when talking about any government involvement in our lives.
> 
> [Case]
> I really don't see what point you are trying to make with this.

[Platt]
Perhaps if I remind you of the millions slaughtered by their own 
governments you'll get an inkling of my point.

> [Platt]
> Due process for terrorists? Never.  Kill them. Our pussy footing around
> with terrorists in Iraq is why we haven't won. In war, its kill or be
> killed. Due process doesn't apply. 
> 
> [Case]
> Due process for terrorists, child molesters, rapists and cannibals,
> always. We are losing in Iraq because we were stupid to go in.  

[Platt]
Stupid in hindsight, perhaps. But at the time when all the world's 
intelligence agencies were saying that Saddam was stockpiling WMD and 
developing atomic weapons, even "We the People" as represented in 
Congress sanctioned "going in." As Yogi Berra said, " We made too many 
wrong mistakes" afterwards -- like not being ruthless.

> [Platt]
> You mean a majority can vote to strip away property rights of a 
> minority?
> 
> [Case]
> Of course it can but our system is designed to reduce the likelihood.
> Madison discussed this a considerable length in the Federalist Papers
> under the topic of "faction."

[Platt]
I wish. I'm a minority of one and the majority strips away my property 
every April 15.   

> [Platt]
> Yes, there's always slavery or totalitarianism where you to told what 
> to produce, or else.
> 
> [Case]
> Not here.

[Platt]
It can happen here and anywhere.

> [Platt]
> Not determined by law. Determined by the intellectual morality of 
> individual freedom, protected and preserved by law in the U.S. 
> 
> [Case]
> Intellectual morality codified into law by elected representatives of
> the people. Why do I have to keep explaining to you how our systems of
> government works? Surely, you know this stuff.

[Platt]
Surely you know that since the Constitutional Convention of 1787,
elected representatives cannot vote to overthrow our system of   
government and the Bill of Rights which, along with the Declaration, is 
the basis of individual intellectual freedom. I suppose of course we 
could have a Communist-style revolution if our educational system 
dominated by left-wingers manages to indoctrinate enough young people 
in the glories of Marxism.

> [Platt]
> Again, glad to see you emphasize that government is essentially 
> legalized force at the  point of a gun. And you wonder why I am 
> suspicious of government? 
> 
> [Case]
> Our government is essentially of the people, by the people and for the
> people. No I don't understand why you are so suspicious of "We the
> people."

[Platt]
Because of the history of Germany, Russia, China and a few other 
"People's Republics"  in the 20th century.

> [Platt]
> Eminent domain was never intended to enrich private developers. And you
> wonder why I'm suspicious of government?
> 
> [Case]
> I agree but I also agree that laws can be enacted to correct this. 

[Platt]
That we have to is a problem.