[MD] extricating MOQ from SOM

[Ron Kulp]

 SA,Case,
If I may be allowed to interject,I think both of you would enjoy the
Iroqoi legend of The Great Peacemaker, sometimes referred to as
Deganawida or "Dekanawida" (although as a mark of respect the Iroquois
avoid referring to him by this name except in special circumstances),
was the traditional founder, with Hiawatha, of the Haudenosaunee
(commonly called the Iroquois) confederacy, a political and cultural
union of Native American tribes. Being "Native" I greatly appreciate
your discussion.
-RK 

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Case
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 12:48 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] extricating MOQ from SOM

[SA]
Case this is exactly why Zen works perfectly with the MoQ.  Everyday
life is mystical.  

[Case]
It is my understanding that Zen is a Japanese synthesis of Buddhism and
Taoism, or the introduction of mysticism into Chinese metaphysics. I
personally just stick with the Taoist metaphysics. Having said that I
very much like Zen koans and the Zen masters' efforts to cause a Gestalt
shift in their students. As for meditation and other Zen practices...
they are ok just not my cup of tea. But then neither am I a fan of the
Taoist master's practice of drinking their urine and withholding semen
in their pursuit for immortality.

[SA]
This is why Amerindian mysticism works perfectly, maybe even more so
than Zen, for the Amerindian notices mysticism, notices quality, as you
put it in subjects and objects so much so, that a hunter needing food,
will kill, thank the animal, put back something of the animal in a way
that gives back, as the gift cycle must continue, and yet, this also
might be looked at as pure survival.  

[Case]
I think Pirsig does a good job of highlighting the influence of native
peoples on Americans. Their recognition of the kinship of all life and
our dependence on nature is sorely missing in modern life. The
consequences of our ignoring this are becoming increasingly severe.

I would also note that North American natives were a prehistoric people
and looking at the variety of social systems employed on this continent
provides a rich insight into how our ancestors lived from the dawn of
time. It is hard to look at native culture and say that these people had
different thinking processes or were irrational or any of the strange
things often said about them. One of the strong points of Pirsig's work
is his recognition of the important contributions they have made to the
modern world. One can only hope that with recognition will come a wider
acceptance of their perspective. But I am often given to wishful
thinking.





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