[MD] Falling out of Time/Space

[Magnus Berg]

Hi Krimel

Krimel:
> Wheeler's many worlds idea sort of goes with that but it is more like
> timestreams separate from each other at each quantum choice point.

Yes, but that was not what I meant.

> I'm not
> sure that each quantum particle is coherent enough across time to have it's
> own history, though. Plus from instant to instant aren't your biological
> patterns composed of different quantum particles?

The term "quantum particle" is probably a contradiction in itself. Something 
like quantum entity may be a better one. Anyway, just as my body is completely 
exchanged (atom wise) every 7 or so years, it's of course possible that 
inorganic particles can be renewed in a similar fashion, but I'm not sure about 
me being composed of different quantum entities every instant?

> After all what ever "identity" or "self" we have is in the pattern of
> particles and fields, not the particles or fields themselves. Well, it least
> unless you take Sheldrake seriously.

If you use "pattern" here, don't you mean a static pattern of value? And in that 
case, you should also state which kind/level of pattern. I think the human 
"self" you refer to is best described as intellectual patterns. Even if someone 
loses both his legs and arms and then some, I guess you would still consider him 
to be "himself". On the other hand, after a serious stroke, many people are not 
themselves anymore.

And since the intellectual patterns of a person is dependent on all lower levels 
of the body, then if the body vanishes so does the "self". It sounded as if you 
thought the self could still be around even if the body disappeared, or perhaps 
I misunderstood you?

	Magnus




> Krimel
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Magnus Berg [mailto:McMagnus at home.se] 
> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 1:59 AM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Falling out of Time/Space
> 
> Hi guys
> 
> I actually touched this subject in an essay I'm writing, but I don't think
> *you* 
> as a whole person would be able to experience falling out of time/space.
> 
> What I speculate is that each quantum "particle" has its own
> timeline/history. 
> The only thing that makes us able to exist in one time is that all those
> quantum 
> particles now use the same timeline and space. If this wasn't the case, each
> 
> particle that you depend on would go back to its own spaceless timeline, so
> you 
> would in a way explode, or rather just vanish.
> 
> 	Magnus
> 
> 
> 
> gav wrote:
>> okay...i see.
>> well i guess technically speaking everything that has happened or will
> ever happen happens 'now'. that is the now contains all temporal events.
>> so...in theory it may be possible to travel back/forward in time, in some
> manner of speaking. 
>> i don't think you can get separated from time - the eternal is what
> encompasses and sustains time - infinite time if you like. to be timeless is
> to be in eternity - the basic primordial flux devoid of any conceptual
> differentiation. maybe we visit this dimension in dreams....perhaps thatiis
> what it feels like to be a time traveller.
>>
>>
>> --- On Mon, 18/8/08, Krimel <Krimel at Krimel.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Krimel <Krimel at Krimel.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [MD] Falling out of Time/Scace
>>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>>> Received: Monday, 18 August, 2008, 8:30 AM
>>> I was thinking more along the line of becoming actually
>>> disconnected from
>>> space time. You are sounding more like Donnie Darko kind of
>>> unstuck or Adian
>>> Quinn in the Jacket kind of unstuck. I mean what if you
>>> could move your
>>> existence along the temporal dimension like Dr. Who does.
>>> Back and forth. In
>>> time.
>>>
>>>
>>> heya,
>>>
>>>> So conceptually, abstractly how would your perceptions
>>> be
>>>> changed if you
>>>> fell out or became unhinged from time/space in say, a
>>> non a
>>>> priori way?
>>>>
>>> time is subject to dilation/contraction, depending upon
>>> your state of mind.
>>> when meditating time seems to lose its linear regularity.
>>> two hours can seem
>>> like a lot shorter. same sorta thing with marijuana or acid
>>> - time dilates.
>>>
>>> being 'in the zone' is one name for a non-linear
>>> time experience. when in
>>> the zone' it seems like one has plenty of time - to see
>>> the ball etc. time
>>> is slower for you than for your non-zoned opponent.
>>>
>>> i suppose that extreme meditators get close to a no-time
>>> experience - for
>>> the 'now' is eternal.
>>>
>>>
>>> so i don't think you explode...or if you do it is a
>>> subtle explosion.
>>>
>>>
>>>> How might it affect your flow rate?
>>>> All at once?
>>>> Wouldn't you explode?
>>>> Conceptually speaking of course.
>>>> Krimel
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>> Gav said:
>>>> time and space are patterns abstracted from
>>> experience,
>>>> like all others.
>>>> they are not a priori categories of perception a la
>>> kant.
>>>> in other words time and space, inextricably linked of
>>>> course, are perceptual
>>>> constructs. they are conceptual.
>>>>
>>>> this is why time flows at different rates dependent
>>> upon
>>>> the state of the
>>>> perceiver. 'to see eternity in an hour...'
>>>>
>>>> time is so everything doesn't happen at once.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Mon, 18/8/08, Krimel <Krimel at Krimel.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I would say that Dr. Who has some of the best
>>>> speculation
>>>>> available on that
>>>>> question. He has been bouncing back and forth
>>> across
>>>> his
>>>>> own time line for
>>>>> what; 30 something years now? Unless I am
>>> mistaken he
>>>> is
>>>>> locked along the
>>>>> same time continuum for some reason of another.
>>> But
>>>>> didn't he skip into
>>>>> another timeline once or twice?
>>>>>
>>>>> STNG did a great episode that was like. the many
>>>> worlds of
>>>>> Worf, once.
>>>>> Worf's of many different quantum worlds
>>> appears at
>>>>> once. I recall that
>>>>> Voyager's from two timelines met and
>>> eventually
>>>> one of
>>>>> the Janeways had to
>>>>> sacrifice her crew and ship to save the other.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I really fell out of time/space I am not sure
>>> if
>>>>> experience would even be
>>>>> sequential.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know! Where do you guys think you
>>> would be
>>>> if
>>>>> you fell out of
>>>>> time/space?
> 
> 
> 
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