[MD] Problems with Intellectual control of Society

[John Carl]

On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 8:00 AM, <plattholden at gmail.com> wrote:

John]

> But what of the actual emotions I experience empirically every day of my
> > life?
> >
> > 99.3% socially generated.
>



> Causes of individual emotional responses are too numerous to list. But I
> and Pirsig argue that their source is biological.



John]

Then you and Pirsig are gonna have to explain to me the difference between
"source" and "cause".  You might as well say intellectual responses are
biological because they reside in a brain.





> Fear, for example, can
> be "generated" by social patterns (IRS) and/or intellectual patterns (mid-
> year exams). You indicate other social patterns that generate biological
> emotions below.
>
>

Yes, fear can.  And that which generates fear is the source of fear, and the
source of fear is not biological - it is relational.  Even fear of a tiger
is really a social situation, with many cues and responses possible between
my biological being and his.



>
> "Excitement" finds its source in biology. My cat, UTOE, gets very
> excited when a salamander climbs up our porch screen. The basic
> emotions of pleasure and pain are biologically based. My cat purrs when
> happy (your boss praising your work) and hisses when pissed off
> (somebody cuts you off in traffic).
>
>

I disagree.  Excitement finds its expression in biology.  What you are
calling a "source", I am calling a response because I say the feeling comes
before feeling the feelings.

And if that doesn't make much sense to you, then you can at least empathize
with me because your posit of emotions having a biological source makes as
little to me.

The source of an emotion is  Quality.  My biological organism responds to
these arising emotions in a fundamental way that makes you think of them as
the source, but the biology is not the source, it is the vehicle.  My body
carries thoughts that "tingle" in my arms, create a pit in my stomach, flush
my cheeks... these are biological responses to DQ - created emotions.
 Emotions arising from social relations - social relations all around me,
even in the social interaction between my being and inorganic matter - when
my relationship with my woodstove gets too intimate for my taste, and I need
some space.

Social relations codified in word and structure, existing on differing
levels of being.  Ultimately, emotions are part of intellect - a
pre-objective thinking that is probably our closest link to what some term,
Pure Experience and I would call, Quality.



I say "I could be wrong" once in awhile to let you and others know that I
> detest the arrogance of some who think they know what's good for
> others and are willing to put my money where their mouths are.
>


Ah well.  Interesting.  Does humility as a rhetorical technique retain still
the meaning of the word?