[MD] Speed of Lighting, Roar of thunder...

[MarshaV]

Marsha:  
I think the difficulty is the deep seated pronouns that live in
us all.  Patterns do exist outside "my self".  Static patterns of 
value represent all that can be conceptualized.  Similar patterns 
(redundancy included to emphasize a point) exist across 
many human beings and across many generations of time.  




On Aug 21, 2010, at 9:46 PM, craigerb at comcast.net wrote:

> [Magnus]
>> We not only derive concepts, we also *experience*. 
>> Those experiences are still real, even before we conceptualize them.
>> SQ patterns exist outside our concepts of them.
> 
> 
> .
> IMHO this is the fundamental controversy in the MD:
> "the MoQ creates reality" or "we create SQ" or spovs are ideas 
> 
> vs.
> "SQ patterns exist outside our concepts of them"
> .
> 
> 
> [Krimel]
>> reality is fundamentally chaotic.
> 
> .
> Or perhaps we just don't understand it well enough yet.
> 
> Craig 
> 
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