[MD] Sex, Rape and Law in a MOQ

[118]

Hi Arlo,
Nifty eye catching title!  I will try to participate without getting too....

On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 11:06 AM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR <ajb102 at psu.edu> wrote:
> [Mark before]
> I can see that we are at an impasse here.  What I am suggesting is to look at
> things through the view of Quality, not Western logic.
>
> [Arlo]
> This is precisely what I've done, and I'm not sure how better to say this.
>
> Sex = Biological pattern.
>
> "Rape stigma" = Social patterns. (often conflates shame and humiliation- and
> punishment- on both the aggressor and the victim as a means of controlling what
> it sees as a sexual (albeit deviant) act)
>
> Rape laws = Intellectual patterns. (controls the social patterns by defining
> the act as one of violence, removes shame and humiliation from the victim, and
> is based on the idea that each individual has a "right" to control their bodies)
>
> Each is put into place to dominate the level beneath it.
>
> You are right, "rape law" has nothing to do with the biological urge for sex. I
> never once said it did, so who are you arguing with?

[Mark]
Yes you do.  You state that rape law is meant to control the
biological.  I am discussing this with you in a respective manner.

>
> "Rape laws" were enacted to dominate the social practices of controlling sex
> (biological patterns) via stigma, beatings, shame, humiliation, etc, that were
> more about viewing women as the property of their husbands (social level) than
> preserving the freedom to control their bodies (intellectual level). (I think
> this is evident very strongly in the fact that until very recently, a husband
> could not "rape" his wife).

[Mark]
You are applying intellectual patterns to justify intellectual
patterns.  This will not work.

>
> On the biological level, "sex" is a pattern of Quality, a response of the
> organism to its environment. On the social level, women became the property of
> men and "rape" was seen as property theft, and social patterns dealt harshly
> with sex that met this definition. On the intellectual level, rape laws were
> enacted to control the social patterns and to define the "freedom" people have
> to control their own bodies.

[Mark]
I do see rape more as an intrusion into personal freedom or personal
property if you want.  Freedom is a biological imperative, the social
pattern is supporting the biological level, not controlling it.

>
> I think you could also argue that the social response sees this act as "sex"
> (deviant sex, or unsolicited sex) and a large part of the stigma is to protect
> the woman or man from social shame and humiliation, whereas the intellectual
> level sees the act as violence and has moved to control the social patterns of
> "forcing shame" surrounding this event.

[Mark]
Yes you can, but it doesn't lead anywhere new.
>
> I think you can clearly see this in other cultures when a raped person is
> ostracized, in some places expected to take thier own life to preserve the
> honor of their family, or treated as though they ought to be ashamed forever of
> what had happened (rape stigma).
>
> The intellectual level has sought to dominate this, by defining the act as one
> of violence (not sex) for which the victim should have no shame (rape laws).
>
> PS: I've changed the topic thread since this has moved into its own topic.

[Mark]
Yes, I can see your Western logic here.  Let me suggest that the
biological urges create and therefore dominate the social expression
of rape laws.  These in turn dominate and control the intellectual
level.  It is impossible to dominate from the top down.  The
government tries to do this, and it has gone askew.  Quality dominates
truth, not the other way around.  The intellect grows out of the
levels below, it is a simplification of dynamic quality (it is also
dynamic quality, don't get me wrong).  Does the flower dominate the
plant?  Does the sentence dominate the thought?

I am flipping Western logic on its head.  This is the Quality approach.

Mark
>
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