[MD] the sophists

[skutvik at online.no]

Andre

On 24 May. u wrote (in an unexpected but welcome mellow tone ;-)

> I just had an 'epiphany'. I was trying to make sense of your Q-level,
> your 'super-rationality' level, you even went one farther the other
> day and referred to it as the 'hyper' what-ye-me-call-it.

I believe I once called young Phaedrus an hyper-intellectual "pattern" 
who became DQ's vehicle and I may also have called the MOQ a "Q-
level"  in connection with its level-like relationship vis-a-vis intellect, but 
its no static level. However, at these high metaphysical altitudes it's not 
easy to find the proper "netherlandish" formulations.

> Now, my insight (came dynamically you know!) is that your 5th Q- level
> would be called static level of quality Quality? Static patterns of
> Quality value?? Quality patterns of Quality? High dynamic qushift ality
> patterns of Quality? Super high dynamic patterns of value? Hyper high
> dynamically grounded super rational quality patterns of Quality?

Ditto regarding the 5th. level, but I soon saw the folly and withdrew it, 
but it sticks like glue. The MOQ its no new level but a reality that have 
swallowed the old one to form a new. To some this (closing of the Q 
circle) sounds like "encapsulating Quality" but the number of sub-sets 
the DQ/SQ constellation can spawn is limit-less and its space of 
expansion is without boundary.         

> And this is where the 'epiphany' stopped. From the MOQ perspective I
> failed to understand this koan because it warped me in confusing,
> self-contradictory cycles of ... bull!

As said, when one reaches the heights where reality becomes rarefied 
it's time to come down, we can't live up there for ever. The static realm 
is our abode, we can freely roam all levels now that we know the 
Quality context.

> You have really objectified the MOQ.

The MOQ is out of SOM - or intellect is its highest static level  - and it 
can't  neglect intellect's  rationality even if it rejects its subject/object 
split as fundamental. If Pirsig had come down from his expedition with 
flaming eyes and a "Voe ye sinners" approach, he would have been 
locked up for good, instead he wrote books . And yet I think he still left 
too much of the religious element with Quality a bit God-like and the 
MOQ a mere stone tablet.     

> At least the MOQ has a clear intellectual level and reference to DQ!

Have I denied that?

> It's all in the experience you know?

Yes.

Bodvar