[MD] grmbl

[skutvik at online.no]

Andre, Platt, All.

31 May:

Platt had said:
 
> What Mr. Pirsig was talking about with regards to "container logic" was
> his wholehearted adoption of it to explain his new metaphysics, neatly
> summarized in one sentence: "What the Metaphysics of Quality would do
> is to take this separate category, Quality, and show how it contains
> within itself both subjects and objects." (Lila, 5) That one sentence
> also advances Bo's idea that the intellectual level is not only a
> "subset" of Quality but restricted to the S/O division. 

Andre:
> Hi Platt, it seems our readings of this sentence (within the context
> of the MOQ) is different then? Within the MOQ objects are inorganic
> and organic patterns of value, and subjects are social and
> intellectual patterns of value. All neatly arranged within an
> evolutionary framework.

Within the MOQ subjects and objects are SOM! The part about how 
the MOQ encases SOM (objects =  matter & life and subjects = 
societies &  intellect) does not work at all.   

> Are we sharing the same meaning of 'subjects' and 'objects'? Perhaps
> you can explain what you mean by these two conceptualizations(if they
> are indeed different to the MOQ understanding of them). This may clear
> up a lot of misunderstandings and 'talking passed' eachother.

OK this is me not Platt, but subjects and objects - along with all S/O 
dualisms - came to pass with the Greeks. Isn't it possible to get this 
ESSENTIAL message into your head? (ZAMM 382) 

    What is essential to understand at this point is that until now 
    there was no such thing as mind and matter, subject and 
    object, form and substance. Those divisions are just dialectical 
    inventions that came later. The modern mind sometimes tends 
    to balk at the thought of these dichotomies being inventions 
    and says, ``Well, the divisions were there for the Greeks to 
    discover,'' and you have to say, ``Where were they? Point to 
    them!'' And the modern mind gets a little confused and 
    wonders what this is all about anyway, and still believes the 
    divisions were there. But they weren't, as Phædrus said. They 
    are just ghosts, immortal gods of the modern mythos which 
    appear to us to be real because we are in that mythos. But in 
    reality they are just as much an artistic creation as the 
    anthropomorphic Gods they replaced.  

But still thanks for discussing the MOQ

Bodvar