[MD] [Bulk] Re: Humanism

[david buchanan]

Mark said:
 dmb has no interest in discussing MOQ with any that have views other than his own.

dmb says:
The MOQ is exactly what I'm MOST interested in discussing, especially here. What I'm NOT interested in doing is repeating myself over and over again. What I'm NOT interested in doing is explaining basic ideas that every intelligent adult should already know. I'm not going to debate absurdities or argue with crazy people anymore. I'm sick to death of it. 


Arlo said to Mark:
It appears from the bulk of your posts you take exception to Pirsig's comments on theism. You are not the first. In the years I've belonged to the list there have been a steady stream of religious apologists who have either tried to "prove" the MOQ is a religion, or that religion someone sits above reason, or that we should dismiss anything Pirsig said about religion and embrace a Christian MOQ. And, since DMB agrees with Pirsig on this topic, this has your ire and so everything DMB says you attack with inane retorts.

dmb says:
Exactly. This discussion group has seen a parade of theists that is ten years long. It never ends and they all do the same thing. They ignore and dismiss every piece of evidence to the contrary and they abuse anyone who dares to present that evidence. That's exactly what I'm so sick of. I used to be relatively indifferent but, because of their persistence in this forum, I have come to despise theists. 
"When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called a Religion." 

Arlo said to Mark:
It's meaningless to provide Pirsig's words in a forum about Pirsig's ideas? Please. The only reason I can see this bothering you is that you *want* the MOQ to mean something and when Bob said something to the contrary it annoys you that DMB brings it up to clarify Pirsig's position. What other discussion group about a philosopher do you know where quoting the philosopher is attacked?

dmb says:
Exactly. There is no better evidence for Pirsig's views. in this situation, to complain about the use of quotes from Pirsig is just plain stupid. Sorry to be so frank, but it has to be said. That's just nuts.   



Arlo said to Mark:
I think more perverse is the notion that every post should reinvent the wheel. As for the MOQ *and* philosophy, DMB demonstrates a far greater depth of understanding and contextual knowledge than I've seen most anyone else here contribute. Is it this authority that threatens you? 

dmb says:
Thanks, Arlo. I'm going to share a quote from Pirsig that nobody here has ever seen. It was something he said over a year ago and I've been sitting on it ever since. Ant and I were getting into the car to go over to Oxford's campus for the MOQ study day when he handed me something he'd printed from the internet and said something like, "Hey Dave, take a look at this". He found it on the website of Pirsig's English publishers.

"I'm very pleased to know that Dr. Anthony McWatt and David Buchanan will be speaking at Oxford. They are the two foremost philosophers today on the Metaphysics of Quality and its implications for the guidance of humanity. General public understanding of this metaphysical system is still in its infancy and they deserve the careful, open-minded attention that early proponents of any idea need." (Robert Pirsig, October 2009)

That seems a little over the top even to me. David Granger, whose Ph.D. thesis has been published as the book titled "John Dewey, Robert Pirsig, and the Art of Living", is certainly one of the foremost philosophers of the MOQ and he's certainly foremoster than me. But still. If there is anyone that can be a judge of who gets it and who doesn't, it's Pirsig. 

Okay. Let the shit storm begin. I can just see how well this will be received by people like Mark and Marsha. As usual, they will be gracious and charming and they'll take it in exactly the spirit it was given. (Yes, I'm dripping with sarcasm.)